Buying a ZTR, what should I look for, or avoid?

[big bubba]

no mention of Kohler here, never owned that engine, but was highly unimpressed with my neighbor's one on a Bad Boy. poor air filter design. i have both intek & kawi twin, both have been excelent

 

[WinterDeere]

no mention of Kohler here, never owned that engine, but was highly unimpressed with my neighbor's one on a Bad Boy. poor air filter design. i have both intek & kawi twin, both have been excelent

I've owned a few Kohler engines, but all K301's and the like built in the 1960's, so probably not very relevant to anything modern wearing that badge. The old ones were actually respectiable little engines, in so far as 1960's homeowner grade equipment goes, but I wouldn't take one over a modern V-twin.

 

[mjonesnh]

no mention of Kohler here, never owned that engine, but was highly unimpressed with my neighbor's one on a Bad Boy. poor air filter design. i have both intek & kawi twin, both have been excelent

Have a 2005 Cub Cadet ZTR with a 23hp Kohler Command engine. Replaced coils 5-6 years ago as only repair. 686 hours and very dependable

 

[MMC]

I've owned a few Kohler engines, but all K301's and the like built in the 1960's, so probably not very relevant to anything modern wearing that badge. The old ones were actually respectiable little engines, in so far as 1960's homeowner grade equipment goes, but I wouldn't take one over a modern V-twin.

The old cast iron Kohlers were capable and dependable engines. I have a 1969 John Deere 140 with a 14HP Kohler K321 in it. Has a hydrostatic in it the size of a 1958 Buick automatic LOL, independent brakes, and a real hydraulic system for attachments. Bought it worn out from a school and put a new short block in it in 1986 and then mowed with it for many years...really hard to bog that thing down. Still get it out occasionally to mow with or to pull a spray trailer. But those engines are long since gone and probably just too expensive to produce today.

 

[jk96]

sounds like you done right. as a footnote that seems obvious but will say anyway: within a manufacturer, there are both consumer (box store quality) all the way up to heavy duty commercial grade models.,

mention this as a friend has a lower end Hustler (raptor i believe) that has been one headache after another incl replacing pumps. highly suggest going upper tier on any manufacturer.
many of the upper end models use Parker pumps, & Hydro Gear motors

In addition to build quality there can be a big difference in mowing speed between the homeowner and commercial versions as well. Currently have a 72" exmark but a couple of years back I had a 60" exmark lazer z x series and dad had the homeowner pioneer exmark model in 60". I had to borrow his once when I damaged a spindle. I mow 6 acres and his mowed great but was painfully slow.

 

[bcp]

What I've learned about mowers is to start mowing around the house with a gas or electric push mower. Stop after one hour. That is the maximum size of your yard. From then on, mow your yard with whatever you want. All the rest is a field for the tractor/cutter to cut a couple of times a year.

Don't be a slave to your lawn.



Bruce

 

[big bubba]

Have a 2005 Cub Cadet ZTR with a 23hp Kohler Command engine. Replaced coils 5-6 years ago as only repair. 686 hours and very dependable

glad to hear....never owned a Kohler, the one i mentioned was on a lower end Bad Boy. goes to show quality difference between upper & lower ends of a given manu can differ. regards.

 

[WinterDeere]

What I've learned about mowers is to start mowing around the house with a gas or electric push mower. Stop after one hour. That is the maximum size of your yard. From then on, mow your yard with whatever you want. All the rest is a field for the tractor/cutter to cut a couple of times a year.

Don't be a slave to your lawn.



Bruce

... and with that bit of humor, I'm out to finish moving the the last of the 24 yards of mulch I had delivered.

Mowing is actually the easy / fun part of the property care package. Weeding gardens and trimming shrubs is the part I hate, so I hire that out after the initial spring cleaning and mulch are done.

 

[Bocephous]

Without reading all the posts, and having my Hustler Fastrak SD for 13 mowing seasons now, mowing about 2-3 acres weekly on semi-rough terrain, I'd look for 4 things if I had to replace it:

1. A Kawasaki FX motor. It has been trouble free and is easy to maintain.

2. Hydrogear transaxles. Mine has 3100 transaxles and has been trouble free. The dealer services them every other year.

3. Some kind of suspension. My Fastrak has Hustler's flex forks, and I installed a suspension seat base. This helped a lot and was worth the $150 I spent on it at the time.

4. Quality product from a knowledgeable dealer. No off brands, no box stores. My dealer is a husband/wife/son operation and all work is performed by them. They don't sell garbage and the owner/son are first rate mechanics.

 

[arrow]

no mention of Kohler here, never owned that engine, but was highly unimpressed with my neighbor's one on a Bad Boy. poor air filter design. i have both intek & kawi twin, both have been excel

Kohler is getting out of engines. As they should.
Have been nothing but headaches for the last 5 or 6 yrs.
They went the way of the Subaru/Robin debacle.

 

[arrow]

Without reading all the posts, and having my Hustler Fastrak SD for 13 mowing seasons now, mowing about 2-3 acres weekly on semi-rough terrain, I'd look for 4 things if I had to replace it:

1. A Kawasaki FX motor. It has been trouble free and is easy to maintain.

2. Hydrogear transaxles. Mine has 3100 transaxles and has been trouble free. The dealer services them every other year.

3. Some kind of suspension. My Fastrak has Hustler's flex forks, and I installed a suspension seat base. This helped a lot and was worth the $150 I spent on it at the time.

4. Quality product from a knowledgeable dealer. No off brands, no box stores. My dealer is a husband/wife/son operation and all work is performed by them. They don't sell garbage and the owner/son are first rate mechanics.

Good advice on all points.
If not suspension then at least a comfort sprung seat.
Mowing 5 acres is no small task on a weekly basis and with obstructions such as trees and such, lever movements are going to be numerous so only the best componentry should be had.

 

[arrow]

... and with that bit of humor, I'm out to finish moving the the last of the 24 yards of mulch I had delivered.

Mowing is actually the easy / fun part of the property care package. Weeding gardens and trimming shrubs is the part I hate, so I hire that out after the initial spring cleaning and mulch are done.

That’s a lotta mulch Winter.
I complain having to move 5 yds of the stuff.

 

[arrow]

Honda is getting out of walk behinds.
They have had a cam issue that if I told you the ridiculous dealer remedy they purport, you’d wouldn’t want one either.

 

[WinterDeere]

That’s a lotta mulch Winter.
I complain having to move 5 yds of the stuff.

Yeah, it's a big pile. But we have about 0.75 acres of manicured gardens, so that 24 yards is would be an impossibly-thin 0.25" thick top dressing, if spread uniformly. Thankfully, we have a lot of ground cover and shrubs that have reduced the amount of mulch we need each year.

I did 60 yards my first year here, digging out all of the prior owner's black-dyed mulch and replacing with natural bark mulch. Then 40 years each of several years after that, until shrubs and ground cover filled in. Then I had one massive year of 110 yards when I converted a 1/4 acre corner of the yard from lawn to garden. Thankfully that's all filled with mature evergreens now, which self mulch, and a lot of ground cover in front of that, so I really only clean out and mulch the front 10 - 20 feet of that garden now.

 

[Sportsman762]

In my original post I asserted that some companies (more like some models within companies) were putting too small of hydro units on their mowers.

However the hydros are rated for a max weight. Many companies will skimp on they hydro creating a mower that is to large for the hydro.
Toro Titan 60", 845 lbs.
Uses HydroGear 2800 that is rated at 1000 lbs max.
That leaves 155 lbs for the operator and 5 gallons of gas (30 lbs) so dont fill it up and weigh more than 125lbs.

So after reading @gengine comment I started doubting my post on the pump / motors being too light for mowers and perhaps I was wrong in my assumption of the hydro's being rated as a pair and the rating might be as a single side. In which case I disqualified some nice looking mowers such as the Toro Titan I mentioned in my first post.

I was a Husqvarna dealer for 12 years, just changed careers a year ago. Trans axles are used in lawn tractors. ZTRs use 2 pump/motor units, at around 1000# a piece, giving you nearly 2000#.
As for the OP, If you went for a Husky, I would say a minimum of a Z4xx series, it is a robust residential unit. If I were doing what you are, I would buy a Walker, hands down.

So I reached out to Hydro Gear for clearification if the weight rating for zero turn pump motor units are rated per unit. For example I used a Hydrogrear ZT3400 that shows a gross vehicle weight of up to 1600 lbs.

ZT-3400® - Mid-Sized Commercial Transmission - Hydro-Gear

The ZT-3400® is a mid-sized commercial transmission that performs truck-like work yet delivers unmatched maneuverability in tight spaces.

www.hydro-gear.com

Is the 1600 lb weight rating on the ZT3400 for per transmission for 3200 lbs or a set of transmissions?

Their Response:

The 1600 lbs is the combined weight for the 2 units on a machine.

So in GEngine's example a 2 pump unit rated for 1000 lbs would give you 500 lbs per side.

I've never seen a ZTR with just one of those transmissions. Must be a unicycle ZTR.

Yep, thats why the the pump / motor weight rating is as a pair.

Hope this helps folks.

 

[TractorNoob85]

| Toro

www.toro.com

Toro Titan 60". 761lbs. Even if the ZT-2800 hydros are rated to 1000lbs as a pair, Toro sized the Titan for a hefty 240lb person. Seems well within reason and not undersized or underpowered for a residential mower. Some people could stand to lose a few pounds for the sake of the mower. Lol

 

[Sportsman762]

| Toro

www.toro.com

Toro Titan 60". 761lbs. Even if the ZT-2800 hydros are rated to 1000lbs as a pair, Toro sized the Titan for a hefty 240lb person. Seems well within reason and not undersized or underpowered for a residential mower. Some people could stand to lose a few pounds for the sake of the mower. Lol

So this is where things get interesting. I linked in my original post to Toro Titan 6605.
Toro Titan 6605 60", 845 lbs.

You linked to Toro Titan 6604.
Toro Titan 6604 60", 761 lbs

The 6604 would be 1000-761=239 lbs (no fuel so 209 lbs with fuel 5 gal x 6 lbs per gallon) That is darned close given the average American male weigh's 199.8 lbs.

FastStats

FastStats is an official application from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) and puts access to topic-specific statistics at your fingertips.

www.cdc.gov

If you put a bagger on it then it will definately be over weight, with most that weight over the rear hydro units.

I would love to know what drives the differences in weight between models. This is why on the latest post I noted that it varies by model within the same company.

In my original post I asserted that some companies (more like some models within companies) were putting too small of hydro units on their mowers.

Toro defiantly has the largest variation in weight within a model family. I am not sure why.

 

[Torvy]

What I've learned about mowers is to start mowing around the house with a gas or electric push mower. Stop after one hour. That is the maximum size of your yard. From then on, mow your yard with whatever you want. All the rest is a field for the tractor/cutter to cut a couple of times a year.

Don't be a slave to your lawn.



Bruce

Excellent advice. To me the max is 100 yds/meters out in a radius from the house/buildings. I like your time-based approach. Too many people out in rural areas seem to forget they don't have to keep their entire acreage in 'lawn'.

 

[wolc123]

Excellent advice. To me the max is 100 yds/meters out in a radius from the house/buildings. I like your time-based approach. Too many people out in rural areas seem to forget they don't have to keep their entire acreage in 'lawn'.

I sort of agree also. I can cut an acre of land around my house and barn, in one hour with a 38” cut, hydrostatic lawn tractor. I’ve got no use for a push mower, but one hour is the limit for the time it takes to cut my own lawn. I’ve also got very little use for a gear lawn tractor but I do keep one of the same cut width and engine size for backup, or when the lawn is too thick to waste the extra horsepower on the hydro.

I’ve also taken on the added responsibility of my parents 4 acre lawn because my dad is no longer able to safety get on and off of his 54” zero turn. I just replaced his 5 year old “residential” Husqvarna, with a new z-454 commercial model. It take me two hours to cut that 4 acres with that and it uses about 2.5 gallons of gas to do it.

I’ve cut that (3) times this year so far and the novelty of the zero turn hasn’t worn off yet. I still look forward to doing it each week. Their neighbors on each side have struggled to get their lawns cut this year, each just starting on then in the last week. Their grass was 2-3 ft tall.

The one to the south only cut a wide “oval track” around their house, leaving the corners uncut. My mom asked me to cut the adjacent uncut corner section of that neighbor’s yard. The new z-454 didn’t do too bad on that. I raised the deck to the maximum cut hieght (4.5”), went slow, and went over it twice. It turned out ok.

Those zero turns are definitely efficient. I’m not crazy about the lawnmowin job, but a riding mower at least makes it bearable. A hydro transmission make it a little better, and a zero turn make it fun.

 

[WinterDeere]

...a zero turn make it fun.

The most fun I've ever had with less than 500 horsepower.