Buying Advice Used Kubota or New Kioti

[RedNeckGeek]

I purchased a used Kubota L3240 five years ago and it came with lots of issues, It was a private party sale, and I knew little about tractors other than what I'd read on forums like this. Kubota gets a lot of good recommendations, but I guess those folks never had an L3240. First thing I had to do was split the tractor to replace an impeller shaft seal on the transmission. Found out that's not an uncommon problem.

Then I bent the 3PH linkage backing up with the box scraper. Straightened that out with a hydraulic press, and now I don't back up with the box down.

Next to go was the cover plate on one of the front 4WD hubs, which caused the wheel to fall off. Had to limp it back to the garage using the FEL to hold the front end up. Apparently the design is too weak to take much side load, and living on a hillside side loads are unavoidable.

Once back together, one of the couplings between the impeller shaft and the front axle stripped as I was headed down hill with a load of rock in the bucket. There are no brakes on the front axle and with all the weight up front the back wheels just slid when I hit the brakes. The thing took off down the hill like a rocket and the only thing that kept me out of the lake at the bottom was dropping the bucket. When I removed the failed coupler I found the splines on the ID completely worn off while those on the impeller shaft were fine. Sure, nothing lasts forever, but total failure on a safety critical part like that after only 1300 hours?

The main pivots on the FEL boom arms were shot when I got it, and yesterday I finally started in on a repair. Turns out Kubota didn't use bushings on the pivots, the box sections on the loader arms are too thin to use with a magnetic based drill, and I'm not man enough to keep a 1 3/16" drill from spinning out of my hands. I've got a mill, so I've started to disassemble the FEL so I can move the arms to the shop. That's when I found that the welds that hold the stiffener tube between the two loader arms are cracked half way around on each side. That's maybe a good thing because I may have to separate the arms anyway to get them on the mill so I can re-bore the pivot hole.

Two years ago I replaced the FEL mounts because the old ones broke and my attempts to weld repair them also broke. The dealer gave me a "good will" discount, but it still cost almost $1000 for the replacements. When the new ones finally showed up they had been re-designed with thicker sections where the old ones broke, and an Internet search showed that I wasn't the first to have the same problem. When I asked the dealer for some help with the cost, both he and the Kubota warranty person accused me of abusing the tractor. The only abuse that tractor's seen is hauling bucket after bucket of dirt and gravel around the property as I graded and landscaped my home. But as I said, a lot of that was side hilling, and after maybe 1000 1/4 mile trips, the weaknesses in the design became apparent.

My tractor has the HST, and with all the shuttle work it's done, and with mowing, it's easily the best part of the tractor. I really like just having one pedal as well.

If all you want to do is mow, push snow, and maybe rake out a gravel drive once in a while, the Kubota would probably work out just fine. But like my neighbor with a JD says, if you want to build something, you're going to need more of a construction grade tractor, and it'll be either yellow or green.

 

[PapaPerk]

I purchased a used Kubota L3240 five years ago and it came with lots of issues, It was a private party sale, and I knew little about tractors other than what I'd read on forums like this. Kubota gets a lot of good recommendations, but I guess those folks never had an L3240. First thing I had to do was split the tractor to replace an impeller shaft seal on the transmission. Found out that's not an uncommon problem. Then I bent the 3PH linkage backing up with the box scraper. Straightened that out with a hydraulic press, and now I don't back up with the box down. Next to go was the cover plate on one of the front 4WD hubs, which caused the wheel to fall off. Had to limp it back to the garage using the FEL to hold the front end up. Apparently the design is too weak to take much side load, and living on a hillside side loads are unavoidable. Once back together, one of the couplings between the impeller shaft and the front axle stripped as I was headed down hill with a load of rock in the bucket. There are no brakes on the front axle and with all the weight up front the back wheels just slid when I hit the brakes. The thing took off down the hill like a rocket and the only thing that kept me out of the lake at the bottom was dropping the bucket. When I removed the failed coupler I found the splines on the ID completely worn off while those on the impeller shaft were fine. Sure, nothing lasts forever, but total failure on a safety critical part like that after only 1300 hours? The main pivots on the FEL boom arms were shot when I got it, and yesterday I finally started in on a repair. Turns out Kubota didn't use bushings on the pivots, the box sections on the loader arms are too thin to use with a magnetic based drill, and I'm not man enough to keep a 1 3/16" drill from spinning out of my hands. I've got a mill, so I've started to disassemble the FEL so I can move the arms to the shop. That's when I found that the welds that hold the stiffener tube between the two loader arms are cracked half way around on each side. That's maybe a good thing because I may have to separate the arms anyway to get them on the mill so I can re-bore the pivot hole. Two years ago I replaced the FEL mounts because the old ones broke and my attempts to weld repair them also broke. The dealer gave me a "good will" discount, but it still cost almost $1000 for the replacements. When the new ones finally showed up they had been re-designed with thicker sections where the old ones broke, and an Internet search showed that I wasn't the first to have the same problem. When I asked the dealer for some help with the cost, both he and the Kubota warranty person accused me of abusing the tractor. The only abuse that tractor's seen is hauling bucket after bucket of dirt and gravel around the property as I graded and landscaped my home. But as I said, a lot of that was side hilling, and after maybe 1000 1/4 mile trips, the weaknesses in the design became apparent. My tractor has the HST, and with all the shuttle work it's done, and with mowing, it's easily the best part of the tractor. I really like just having one pedal as well. If all you want to do is mow, push snow, and maybe rake out a gravel drive once in a while, the Kubota would probably work out just fine. But like my neighbor with a JD says, if you want to build something, you're going to need more of a construction grade tractor, and it'll be either yellow or green.

Sounds like you bought an abused tractor my friend. Bad luck.

 

[mx1alex]

I was in about the same boat you are in. I about had my mind made up on an new LS XR4046 but the tier 4 stuff made me re-think and I ended buying 2007 Kubota L3940 with 600 hours on it instead. Been happy with my decision so far.

 

[TSO]

But like my neighbor with a JD says, if you want to build something, you're going to need more of a construction grade tractor, and it'll be either yellow or green.

Apparently he's never looked at Massey/CAT-Challenger/AGCO (same tractor, built my Iseki) ... When I was comparing different tractors, these tractors appear to have heavier/thicker built components (axles, loader parts, 3pt parts) than the green ones.

 

[gabrielchartrand]

We just bought a DK55 and you get a lot of bang for your buck with Kioti. It's a little noisy in the cab, but still a really nice unit!

 

[uponthriedge]

Well was planning to visit Kubota Dealer and look over the used L4240 in detail and try to negotiate a bit more but got email from dealer that it has been sold. Finally got a price on a Yanmar LX4500HST at 26,900. Specs look similar to Kubota L4060, maybe a bit more 3PT and Loader lift capacity and 5 year powertrain warranty and it does have the Tier 3 engine. Just worry about the dealer as they are basically a lawn tractor chainsaw dealer. Got prices on an LS XR4040 and LS XR4060, spec's look good prices are about 1,500 more than comparable Kioti. Dealer is about 40 miles away but sounds like a great dealer. May drive over and check them out. Trivial but not a fan of the blue color and worry about resale on the LS. So back looking at the Kioti DX4510HS and then I read a forum thread on Shuttle Shift vs HST and so now trying to decide if I should just spend the bucks and get an HST model. Need to get a price on the Kioti DK4510HST to compare to prices on Kubota L4060 which has been priced to me at 27,000. Then again I may read a few more forum posts and end up changing my mind again. Have thought about renting a tractor to do some initial maintenance on my property and see if that helps with my decision making process, but I hate to spend money on a rental that I could put towards tractor purchase. Thankfully, I have to go out of town for two weeks so I will have to put a lot of this on hold. Maybe I will get lucky and a used Tier 3 40+HP Kioti or Kubota will pop up while I am gone. Never knew tractor shopping would be so hard!!!

 

[TomSeller]

Sounds like you bought an abused tractor my friend. Bad luck.

Agree, his was abused, not used.

 

[TSO]

Well was planning to visit Kubota Dealer and look over the used L4240 in detail and try to negotiate a bit more but got email from dealer that it has been sold. Finally got a price on a Yanmar LX4500HST at 26,900. Specs look similar to Kubota L4060, maybe a bit more 3PT and Loader lift capacity and 5 year powertrain warranty and it does have the Tier 3 engine. Just worry about the dealer as they are basically a lawn tractor chainsaw dealer. Got prices on an LS XR4040 and LS XR4060, spec's look good prices are about 1,500 more than comparable Kioti. Dealer is about 40 miles away but sounds like a great dealer. May drive over and check them out. Trivial but not a fan of the blue color and worry about resale on the LS. So back looking at the Kioti DX4510HS and then I read a forum thread on Shuttle Shift vs HST and so now trying to decide if I should just spend the bucks and get an HST model. Need to get a price on the Kioti DK4510HST to compare to prices on Kubota L4060 which has been priced to me at 27,000. Then again I may read a few more forum posts and end up changing my mind again. Have thought about renting a tractor to do some initial maintenance on my property and see if that helps with my decision making process, but I hate to spend money on a rental that I could put towards tractor purchase. Thankfully, I have to go out of town for two weeks so I will have to put a lot of this on hold. Maybe I will get lucky and a used Tier 3 40+HP Kioti or Kubota will pop up while I am gone. Never knew tractor shopping would be so hard!!!

I think you are confusing your Kioti models.

The old tier 3 models (in this size) were the DS and DK. The DS series were the more "basic" tractors (similar to Kubota MX) and the DK were the premium line packed with features. The DS series did NOT come with HST, but did have a hydraulic shuttle.

Fast forward to tier 4... The DK series moved onto the "NX" series, and the DS are now called DK. Seems overly confusing, and I'm not sure why they bothered with the name changes.

Anyhow, the current new "DK" tractors do not, to my knowledge, come in HST... Unless they are adding that to the "DS" line for the new models.

To add even more confusion, ironically, the original DK series became the DS series several years ago, when the "new" (tier 3) DK tractors were rolled out.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Well was planning to visit Kubota Dealer and look over the used L4240 in detail and try to negotiate a bit more but got email from dealer that it has been sold. Finally got a price on a Yanmar LX4500HST at 26,900. Specs look similar to Kubota L4060, maybe a bit more 3PT and Loader lift capacity and 5 year powertrain warranty and it does have the Tier 3 engine. Just worry about the dealer as they are basically a lawn tractor chainsaw dealer. Got prices on an LS XR4040 and LS XR4060, spec's look good prices are about 1,500 more than comparable Kioti. Dealer is about 40 miles away but sounds like a great dealer. May drive over and check them out. Trivial but not a fan of the blue color and worry about resale on the LS. So back looking at the Kioti DX4510HS and then I read a forum thread on Shuttle Shift vs HST and so now trying to decide if I should just spend the bucks and get an HST model. Need to get a price on the Kioti DK4510HST to compare to prices on Kubota L4060 which has been priced to me at 27,000. Then again I may read a few more forum posts and end up changing my mind again. Have thought about renting a tractor to do some initial maintenance on my property and see if that helps with my decision making process, but I hate to spend money on a rental that I could put towards tractor purchase. Thankfully, I have to go out of town for two weeks so I will have to put a lot of this on hold. Maybe I will get lucky and a used Tier 3 40+HP Kioti or Kubota will pop up while I am gone. Never knew tractor shopping would be so hard!!!

It's easy for me to spend someone else's money, but in deciding on features vs. price you need to remember an old saying: You will remember the money you saved buying a cheap tool every time you use it.

This doesn't exactly apply to your situation, but you don't want to be in the position of wishing you had spent a few more dollars on some features (such as HST transmission) that would make your tractor work better/faster for you.

 

[uponthriedge]

TSO you are correct. I was confused the DK4510HS is the hydraulic shuttle not the hydrostatic transmission. I will need to move up to the NX series to get the HST. So now my mission is to compare the features and prices of NX4510HST with the Kubota L4060HST and maybe throw the Yanmar LX4500TL into the equation as well. I wish the tractor dealers were all next to each other like the car dealers!!!

 

[TSO]

TSO you are correct. I was confused the DK4510HS is the hydraulic shuttle not the hydrostatic transmission. I will need to move up to the NX series to get the HST. So now my mission is to compare the features and prices of NX4510HST with the Kubota L4060HST and maybe throw the Yanmar LX4500TL into the equation as well. I wish the tractor dealers were all next to each other like the car dealers!!!

If I may, you should consider the Massey 1749 while you're at it. My Massey is a stud. Flawless so far, just turned 467 hrs today.

Worth a look for comparison sake anyhow ...

 

[Coyote machine]

Kioti with HST. You won't regret that choice.

 

[paulfun9]

TSO you are correct. I was confused the DK4510HS is the hydraulic shuttle not the hydrostatic transmission. I will need to move up to the NX series to get the HST. So now my mission is to compare the features and prices of NX4510HST with the Kubota L4060HST and maybe throw the Yanmar LX4500TL into the equation as well. I wish the tractor dealers were all next to each other like the car dealers!!!

Its not easy picking the right machine. Many of the dealerships here are spaced out in different directions so I spent quite some time driving around looking and making notes of each machine to use as comparison the next day or so when I had time to go the other direction to the next dealer.

Between the HST and HYD shuttle for me it really comes down to the distance I need to run the machine more so than the work to be done. Having multiple machines with HST in some and shuttle in others I find when I do work close to the house say in a 5 acre area I have a tendency to use the HST machines but when the job involves running some distance out and over the fields I most often choose one of the shuttle tractors. With what you have posted so far I think you would be very happy with a HYD shuttle and really have no need for the HST. It might be wise to try and see if there is a way you could spend some seat time in both before making a decision.

Good luck with your search!

 

[GManBart]

Got prices on an LS XR4040 and LS XR4060, spec's look good prices are about 1,500 more than comparable Kioti. Dealer is about 40 miles away but sounds like a great dealer. May drive over and check them out. Trivial but not a fan of the blue color and worry about resale on the LS. So back looking at the Kioti DX4510HS and then I read a forum thread on Shuttle Shift vs HST and so now trying to decide if I should just spend the bucks and get an HST model. Need to get a price on the Kioti DK4510HST to compare to prices on Kubota L4060 which has been priced to me at 27,000.

I can't help with the blue color, but I paid $21,500 for my LS R4047H and sold it for $2K less after putting 215 hours on it. I think TSO had a similar deal when he sold his R4047H as well.

If you want to compare directly to the XR4040H or XR4046, you'll have to look at the Kioti NX4510, which should run a around $2K more than the LS.

 

[varmint]

Seems like about every third post, no matter what forum, has a statement like "check with Barlow's in KY- they deliver all over, are great to deal with, and are up front..." which is a way of saying you might consider what they have used in your parameters of need.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

Sounds like you bought an abused tractor my friend. Bad luck.

This is the outer boss that's supposed to hold the non-rotating pivot pin for the main loader arm pivot. Kubota drilled the holes for the keeper bolts so oversized that the pin ends up rotating, and with no grease fitting on the boss, accelerated wear is the result. Since Kubota neglected to bush the pivots, the repair involves line boring the assembly and fabricating bushings and new pins. This failure had nothing to do with abuse, and was a direct result of bad design and engineering choices made by Kubota.



This is a picture of the FEL mounts off the same tractor. Side by side are shown the original broken mount and updated replacement. Kubota realized that the original design wasn't strong enough to survive lateral loads and thickened the web as a result. Again, that has nothing to do with abuse and everything to do with bad design and engineering.



This is what happens when the outer cover on the 4WD front hub fails due to side loads. It's a cast iron or steel part held in place by a ring of bolts, and it carries a large roller bearing to support the outer end of the stub axle. Kubota must have used the same side load calculations for the failed loader mounts that they used to design the outer cover. Unfortunately the replacement cover design hasn't been upgraded and the resulting flex is still breaking mounting bolts and causing them to loosen. It's only a matter of time before the new cover fails in the same manner as the old one.

What I bought is an over sized garden tractor that would have been fine if all I needed to do was cut the grass, push some snow, and maybe once in a while move some gravel or firewood. Knowing what I know now, I'd have been much better off with a Cat, Deere, or Ford backhoe/loader for the landscaping work I needed to do. The OP of this thread mentioned clearing woods, and even suggesting that a Kubota CUT would be suitable for such a job is irresponsible at best.

 

[Teachu2]

I was faced with a similar choice when I purchased last month - a used Kubota with 750 gentle hours of pulling an orchard trailer (no warranty) vs a new Kioti with more hp and more weight. Both were Tier 3 machines, and when equipped equally were very close in price. I bought the Kioti. A comparable new Kubota would have been a Tier 4, lighter, slightly less hp, and about $7k more money.

 

[Coyote machine]

<snip> Knowing what I know now, I'd have been much better off with a Cat, Deere, or Ford backhoe/loader for the landscaping work I needed to do. The OP of this thread mentioned clearing woods, and even suggesting that a Kubota CUT would be suitable for such a job is irresponsible at best.

So now you know what you needed to get your 'landscaping' jobs done.
Other than a mention of having cleared some woods in his opening post in this thread I can't find anywhere the OP 'suggested' a Kubota CUT would be suited to that task. Clearing woods can vary greatly based on one's concept of what 'clearing woods' means to them. The term is too vague to pass judgement on because to one it can mean using a skidder and making a wreck of everything on site, to another it can mean clearing out dead wood and blowdowns, etc.

One thing is for sure, the used tractor you bought was used up before you got hold of it. I'm not a Kubota guy, and am not familiar with all their models, but I have neighbors and friends who have Kubotas. Not all of what you documented in the post I'm quoting took place because of 'bad engineering' on Kubota's part. If it had, they would have a rough time selling their tractors, period.
Most any piece of equipment can be used past it's design capabilities, and the result will be something like you have shown. Sure, the loader's supports could have been made stronger, and they did redesign them accordingly, as you have shown. The wheel hub/axle issue thing, I don't know, but I'd bet it was partially a function of an overloaded loader over time. The loader arm pin/bushing no zerk thing, again, not from light use of the loader. Things break. They break more when used beyond intended use specs.
I'm sorry you have found a tractor and had to deal with as many issues with it as you have. Sometimes that is what happens when one buys used, and doesn't have the guidance of the dealer, the spec sheets and a manufacturer's warranty. It is a risk one takes, and sometimes one feels the burn of the wrong machine for the tasks at hand. I bought new and not a big enough Kioti my first time out. I bent loader curl brackets like pretzels, because I was pushing the machine beyond it's capabilities. Within a year I traded up, at considerable expense, and the DK-40 I have now is the right machine for me.

What exact landscaping work did you/do you need to accomplish with the equipment you use?

 

[David_Kb7uns]

View attachment 423647
This is the outer boss that's supposed to hold the non

The condition and hours of your tractor are not matching up very good have a 10 year old L3130 GST and not even close on the pin wear and condition and I lift huge logs, rocks and use the tractor to its limits. My BX is the oversized garden tractor, a Grand L series is not.

David Kb7uns

 

[Grandad4]

View attachment 423647
This is the outer boss that's supposed to hold the non-rotating pivot pin for the main loader arm pivot. Kubota drilled the holes for the keeper bolts so oversized that the pin ends up rotating, and with no grease fitting on the boss, accelerated wear is the result. Since Kubota neglected to bush the pivots, the repair involves line boring the assembly and fabricating bushings and new pins. This failure had nothing to do with abuse, and was a direct result of bad design and engineering choices made by Kubota.View attachment 423651

I'd have to agree with David about this. Looks to me that the problem isn't an oversized hole, it's the undersized, non-OEM pin. That pin - which looks tapered at the end and seems made of plain, unplated iron - looks nothing like the standard Kubota mounting pins, which can be seen in David's photo or this one of my tractor. Also, if you magnify the accompanying image, you'll see grease normally does carry from the central zerk through to the ends of both the upper and lower pins. Somebody's down home fixit work has more to do with this than any engineering blunders.

That tractor was unfortunately abused by someone and RNG ended up with the short end of the deal.