Buying Advice Used Kubota or New Kioti

[TSO]

TSO you are correct. I was confused the DK4510HS is the hydraulic shuttle not the hydrostatic transmission. I will need to move up to the NX series to get the HST. So now my mission is to compare the features and prices of NX4510HST with the Kubota L4060HST and maybe throw the Yanmar LX4500TL into the equation as well. I wish the tractor dealers were all next to each other like the car dealers!!!

If I may, you should consider the Massey 1749 while you're at it. My Massey is a stud. Flawless so far, just turned 467 hrs today.

Worth a look for comparison sake anyhow ...

 

[Coyote machine]

Kioti with HST. You won't regret that choice.

 

[paulfun9]

TSO you are correct. I was confused the DK4510HS is the hydraulic shuttle not the hydrostatic transmission. I will need to move up to the NX series to get the HST. So now my mission is to compare the features and prices of NX4510HST with the Kubota L4060HST and maybe throw the Yanmar LX4500TL into the equation as well. I wish the tractor dealers were all next to each other like the car dealers!!!

Its not easy picking the right machine. Many of the dealerships here are spaced out in different directions so I spent quite some time driving around looking and making notes of each machine to use as comparison the next day or so when I had time to go the other direction to the next dealer.

Between the HST and HYD shuttle for me it really comes down to the distance I need to run the machine more so than the work to be done. Having multiple machines with HST in some and shuttle in others I find when I do work close to the house say in a 5 acre area I have a tendency to use the HST machines but when the job involves running some distance out and over the fields I most often choose one of the shuttle tractors. With what you have posted so far I think you would be very happy with a HYD shuttle and really have no need for the HST. It might be wise to try and see if there is a way you could spend some seat time in both before making a decision.

Good luck with your search!

 

[GManBart]

Got prices on an LS XR4040 and LS XR4060, spec's look good prices are about 1,500 more than comparable Kioti. Dealer is about 40 miles away but sounds like a great dealer. May drive over and check them out. Trivial but not a fan of the blue color and worry about resale on the LS. So back looking at the Kioti DX4510HS and then I read a forum thread on Shuttle Shift vs HST and so now trying to decide if I should just spend the bucks and get an HST model. Need to get a price on the Kioti DK4510HST to compare to prices on Kubota L4060 which has been priced to me at 27,000.

I can't help with the blue color, but I paid $21,500 for my LS R4047H and sold it for $2K less after putting 215 hours on it. I think TSO had a similar deal when he sold his R4047H as well.

If you want to compare directly to the XR4040H or XR4046, you'll have to look at the Kioti NX4510, which should run a around $2K more than the LS.

 

[varmint]

Seems like about every third post, no matter what forum, has a statement like "check with Barlow's in KY- they deliver all over, are great to deal with, and are up front..." which is a way of saying you might consider what they have used in your parameters of need.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

Sounds like you bought an abused tractor my friend. Bad luck.

This is the outer boss that's supposed to hold the non-rotating pivot pin for the main loader arm pivot. Kubota drilled the holes for the keeper bolts so oversized that the pin ends up rotating, and with no grease fitting on the boss, accelerated wear is the result. Since Kubota neglected to bush the pivots, the repair involves line boring the assembly and fabricating bushings and new pins. This failure had nothing to do with abuse, and was a direct result of bad design and engineering choices made by Kubota.



This is a picture of the FEL mounts off the same tractor. Side by side are shown the original broken mount and updated replacement. Kubota realized that the original design wasn't strong enough to survive lateral loads and thickened the web as a result. Again, that has nothing to do with abuse and everything to do with bad design and engineering.



This is what happens when the outer cover on the 4WD front hub fails due to side loads. It's a cast iron or steel part held in place by a ring of bolts, and it carries a large roller bearing to support the outer end of the stub axle. Kubota must have used the same side load calculations for the failed loader mounts that they used to design the outer cover. Unfortunately the replacement cover design hasn't been upgraded and the resulting flex is still breaking mounting bolts and causing them to loosen. It's only a matter of time before the new cover fails in the same manner as the old one.

What I bought is an over sized garden tractor that would have been fine if all I needed to do was cut the grass, push some snow, and maybe once in a while move some gravel or firewood. Knowing what I know now, I'd have been much better off with a Cat, Deere, or Ford backhoe/loader for the landscaping work I needed to do. The OP of this thread mentioned clearing woods, and even suggesting that a Kubota CUT would be suitable for such a job is irresponsible at best.

 

[Teachu2]

I was faced with a similar choice when I purchased last month - a used Kubota with 750 gentle hours of pulling an orchard trailer (no warranty) vs a new Kioti with more hp and more weight. Both were Tier 3 machines, and when equipped equally were very close in price. I bought the Kioti. A comparable new Kubota would have been a Tier 4, lighter, slightly less hp, and about $7k more money.

 

[Coyote machine]

<snip> Knowing what I know now, I'd have been much better off with a Cat, Deere, or Ford backhoe/loader for the landscaping work I needed to do. The OP of this thread mentioned clearing woods, and even suggesting that a Kubota CUT would be suitable for such a job is irresponsible at best.

So now you know what you needed to get your 'landscaping' jobs done.
Other than a mention of having cleared some woods in his opening post in this thread I can't find anywhere the OP 'suggested' a Kubota CUT would be suited to that task. Clearing woods can vary greatly based on one's concept of what 'clearing woods' means to them. The term is too vague to pass judgement on because to one it can mean using a skidder and making a wreck of everything on site, to another it can mean clearing out dead wood and blowdowns, etc.

One thing is for sure, the used tractor you bought was used up before you got hold of it. I'm not a Kubota guy, and am not familiar with all their models, but I have neighbors and friends who have Kubotas. Not all of what you documented in the post I'm quoting took place because of 'bad engineering' on Kubota's part. If it had, they would have a rough time selling their tractors, period.
Most any piece of equipment can be used past it's design capabilities, and the result will be something like you have shown. Sure, the loader's supports could have been made stronger, and they did redesign them accordingly, as you have shown. The wheel hub/axle issue thing, I don't know, but I'd bet it was partially a function of an overloaded loader over time. The loader arm pin/bushing no zerk thing, again, not from light use of the loader. Things break. They break more when used beyond intended use specs.
I'm sorry you have found a tractor and had to deal with as many issues with it as you have. Sometimes that is what happens when one buys used, and doesn't have the guidance of the dealer, the spec sheets and a manufacturer's warranty. It is a risk one takes, and sometimes one feels the burn of the wrong machine for the tasks at hand. I bought new and not a big enough Kioti my first time out. I bent loader curl brackets like pretzels, because I was pushing the machine beyond it's capabilities. Within a year I traded up, at considerable expense, and the DK-40 I have now is the right machine for me.

What exact landscaping work did you/do you need to accomplish with the equipment you use?

 

[David_Kb7uns]

View attachment 423647
This is the outer boss that's supposed to hold the non

The condition and hours of your tractor are not matching up very good have a 10 year old L3130 GST and not even close on the pin wear and condition and I lift huge logs, rocks and use the tractor to its limits. My BX is the oversized garden tractor, a Grand L series is not.

David Kb7uns

 

[Grandad4]

View attachment 423647
This is the outer boss that's supposed to hold the non-rotating pivot pin for the main loader arm pivot. Kubota drilled the holes for the keeper bolts so oversized that the pin ends up rotating, and with no grease fitting on the boss, accelerated wear is the result. Since Kubota neglected to bush the pivots, the repair involves line boring the assembly and fabricating bushings and new pins. This failure had nothing to do with abuse, and was a direct result of bad design and engineering choices made by Kubota.View attachment 423651

I'd have to agree with David about this. Looks to me that the problem isn't an oversized hole, it's the undersized, non-OEM pin. That pin - which looks tapered at the end and seems made of plain, unplated iron - looks nothing like the standard Kubota mounting pins, which can be seen in David's photo or this one of my tractor. Also, if you magnify the accompanying image, you'll see grease normally does carry from the central zerk through to the ends of both the upper and lower pins. Somebody's down home fixit work has more to do with this than any engineering blunders.

That tractor was unfortunately abused by someone and RNG ended up with the short end of the deal.