Call before you dig

[caver]

Cable test point in a remote area of NE Colorado. I would have not noticed it but was reading a trip report to the Pawnee Buttes area and they presumed it was for area nuke silos. So I kept an eye out for one. Maybe someone in in here knows exactly what it is. It looked like schrader valves.

 

[paulsharvey]

Cable test point in a remote area of NE Colorado. I would have not noticed it but was reading a trip report to the Pawnee Buttes area and they presumed it was for area nuke silos. So I kept an eye out for one. Maybe someone in in here knows exactly what it is. It looked like schrader valves.
View attachment 3129830

Leaded air cables have Schrader valves, but that doesn't look like the lead air cables I've seen. Ones I've seen, is in a pedestal, and it's a soldered lead "hose" with a Schrader valve.

But, much of our infrastructure predates me, and frankly often any living person. Not uncommon to work on nearly 100 year old stuff, from bridges from late 30s to water lines from the teens. People miss something with FLa, they know St Augustine and Pensacola are Old, like 450 years old, but they think the rest is 1980s or newer. Gainesville, Palatka, Ocala, Starke, Lake City, Tallahassee, Jacksonville, ect are pre-war.

 

[paulsharvey]

That could be a specialized splice, that is pressurized to keep ground water out? Now they are grease-wax filled, but i wouldn't put it past old copper splices to use air, or other inert gas to keep them dry?

 

[caver]

I wasn't about to take the caps off to look. I do recall the rough area and there is a cable line marked on topo maps. Some seem to go nowhere or they end next to a silo/launch complex. This whole area is active Minuteman III silos 321 Missile Squadron, Warren AFB.

 

[paulsharvey]

Anyone who does excavation really should atleast read their state regs on it. For us in FLa, it isn't as cut and dry as, if they don't mark it, and you hit it, your free. First, you have 24" tolerance zone from the outside if the mark. So, they mark a 36" wide duct bank, you are responsible for a 84" zone. On top of that, you are responsible for checking your "positive response" on the ticket. They might have not marked but their response might be, "must be white lined" or something other than "clear". And even if marked "clear" IF there are clear signs there is something there, say a hand hole, pedestal, manhole, power transformer, farm tap, reg station, ect, You are responsible for calling them to "refresh".

All that seems like a lot, but it doesn't even need to be high profile to run into the $10k plus quickly. The locators while still try to throw it on you 9 times out of 10.

If you do damage, you likely will get a bill. Then you deny, deny, deny; and at some point, it goes to arbitration, where it gets settled.

I've been part of a couple damages that are around that $150-250k range, both involving water mains, that caused road damage. I have been distantly involved in a $1.4m damage, not directly.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, I'll admit, I'm going back through scanning the comments from the top, and I came across one talking about conduit/utility color.

Locate mark colors Are regulated (here), orange=telecom; blue=water; green=sewer; yellow=gas/fuel; red=power; purple=reclaimed/raw water, ect. However; conduit color is Not regulated. There is absolutely fiber/telecoms in yellow/orange/green/black/grey conduit. Most times green pipe is sewage and blue is water, But I have absolutely seen blue foremain. Gas, yellow PE is common for small stuff, but direct bury steel is now green epoxy coat steal, and drilled is generally a brown epoxy coating; But old steel was often/is often a black "bark" of asphalt and asbestos wrap. Some of the old gas stuff was a pinkish orange, and there was a type that was a gray-orange. Most ATT was for years 2 or 4" grey PE, but they have started using more and more 3" black PE conduit.

We were looking at a DBC copper (direct buried cable) in conflict with a signal pole. It was supposed to be a 1200 pair. Anyways, while 4 or 5 of us were trying to come up with a plan, a laborer came up with a Sawzall. We asked him what he was doing. "Foreman sent me to window the pipe". We told him, that's Copper, not pipe. He laughed and said that's pipe, there isn't 4" diameter cable.... We did stop him, but yes, it was a 4" OD cable, turned out it was a 2000 pr.

We currently have a rural fiber to house, stimulus job, that they are using 2" green PE for fiber. Not a "problem" , but everyone's first assumption on finding a 2" green poly is a sewer service

 

[Fixastuff]

So, I'll admit, I'm going back through scanning the comments from the top, and I came across one talking about conduit/utility color.

Locate mark colors Are regulated (here), orange=telecom; blue=water; green=sewer; yellow=gas/fuel; red=power; purple=reclaimed/raw water, ect. However; conduit color is Not regulated. There is absolutely fiber/telecoms in yellow/orange/green/black/grey conduit. Most times green pipe is sewage and blue is water, But I have absolutely seen blue foremain. Gas, yellow PE is common for small stuff, but direct bury steel is now green epoxy coat steal, and drilled is generally a brown epoxy coating; But old steel was often/is often a black "bark" of asphalt and asbestos wrap. Some of the old gas stuff was a pinkish orange, and there was a type that was a gray-orange. Most ATT was for years 2 or 4" grey PE, but they have started using more and more 3" black PE conduit.

We were looking at a DBC copper (direct buried cable) in conflict with a signal pole. It was supposed to be a 1200 pair. Anyways, while 4 or 5 of us were trying to come up with a plan, a laborer came up with a Sawzall. We asked him what he was doing. "Foreman sent me to window the pipe". We told him, that's Copper, not pipe. He laughed and said that's pipe, there isn't 4" diameter cable.... We did stop him, but yes, it was a 4" OD cable, turned out it was a 2000 pr.

We currently have a rural fiber to house, stimulus job, that they are using 2" green PE for fiber. Not a "problem" , but everyone's first assumption on finding a 2" green poly is a sewer service

I think so much is orange pipe is going in the ground people are using whatever color is available. lol. Had a couple holds on projects waiting on conduit off and on.

 

[paulsharvey]

I called 811. Guy shows up and flags all the utilities including a major gas pipeline crossing my property. He said I'm not supposed to tell you this, but that's a 12 inch main line, installed in 1978 (so over 45 years old) that is down about 6 feet "according to my meter". Rules were I could not dig within 25' either side of the pipeline without a representative from the gas company present.

Followed up with the gas company and they agreed to be there Tuesday by 12p to watch. So I rented a very capable Dingo to trench in the 1000' conduit run for the cable service. I had already trenched the 950' balance before he got there, so was familiar and very comfortable with the whole trenching operation at that point.

Amazing how much higher the pucker factor was trenching the last 50' running over the pipeline...though only digging down 2 feet, and in spite of it being brrr suit weather, I was sweating bullet sized drops the whole time while digging over that pipeline!View attachment 2993213View attachment 2993254

In FLa, that gas would be "high profile" and the utility can list it as that on their positive response, and require a rep to be onsite. That may or may not come mark them prior, and that's why it's important to check your positive response.

 

[paulsharvey]

It annoys me that they come out, mark and flag everything, but never come back and pick up the flags.

Neighbor kids liked it, I paid them a nickel a flag when the fiber optic project was done, over 100 various flags on my property.

Doug in SW IA

Some areas require "low impact marking", we did some on Florida State University campus, and we had to use chalk paint, and biodegradable marking flags. Everyone is supposed to use fading paint, but some of our local counties and city water/sewer departments use a perm oil based, so that it's easier to locate next time. Our bigger semi local gas outfit (TECO) also has glue down yellow medallions that put on the curb at road crossings

 

[paulsharvey]

They're installing fiber in front of my house now. They have damaged my asphalt drive during the process as well. THe drive cracked where they bored under it to run the lines and they put two gouges in the asphalt with their equipment. The only good thing is that I grew up with the guy who owns the large company doing all this work so hopefully getting it repaired won't be an issue.

That's caused by being too shallow, we refer to that as Mole Hilling. If they Horizontal Directional Drilled (HDD) it, I'm guessing they were maybe 18", but I'll bet they used a pneumatic missile,

 

[part-time-Farmer-NC]

I ran into a similar situation a few years ago. No Cuts was called out to mark the lines, they guy who did the work didn't/couldn't check the fiber going into our building. Remote users were dead in much of their job. No email/no file server etc.

They spent the next day and a half splicing the line back together.

That incident pushed the next wave of equipment purchases into the could. Cloud servers/equipment/access is way higher than onsite and still has it's outage issues.

 

[paulsharvey]

I ran into a similar situation a few years ago. No Cuts was called out to mark the lines, they guy who did the work didn't/couldn't check the fiber going into our building. Remote users were dead in much of their job. No email/no file server etc.

They spent the next day and a half splicing the line back together.

That incident pushed the next wave of equipment purchases into the could. Cloud servers/equipment/access is way higher than onsite and still has it's outage issues.

Generally, Utilities are only required to locate to the Point of Service, which is generally the meter, sewer clean-out, ect. From that point to the building (or whatever), is on You as the contractor or property owner. So, a typical home, with UG power, they locate to the meter, but if you have dual panels, on in an out building, that's Not their Utility, it's yours. Same with water, once that water passes their meter, it's your water and your water line.

There are private locate companies for that, but it is Expensive ($800 or more generally), and isn't part of 811 (in my part id the world)

 

[orezok]

Some areas require "low impact marking", we did some on Florida State University campus, and we had to use chalk paint, and biodegradable marking flags. Everyone is supposed to use fading paint, but some of our local counties and city water/sewer departments use a perm oil based, so that it's easier to locate next time. Our bigger semi local gas outfit (TECO) also has glue down yellow medallions that put on the curb at road crossings

I had location done at my house for electric. The locator did the mark out, but then painted this large diatribe on the ground as how chalk paint was used and would quickly disappear. Unfortunately he apparently couldn’t read the label on the can and used standard oil based paint.

Took me a while to “erase” the paint marks on my concrete drive.

 

[chim]

All better than the European thing of running into bombs underground.

Bruce

Uhhh, we did projects at Aberdeen Proving Ground. Plenty of surprises there. According to rumor, they were running low on acreage for new buildings, so they appropriated an old test range. Foundations take longer when the excavator can only skim 6" between "sweeps".

 

[paulsharvey]

I worked on a project, relocating a high profile fiber, for a road widening project. Guys are neck deep in mud trying to do the tie ins between two bores. Don't think much about it. Couple days later, I was looking over the plans again, and see a note; absolutely no off-site water discharge allowed due to high levels of Cesium-137... No idea why there is radioactive material on the side of the road.

 

[orezok]

Years ago and operator of a scraper told me that he was doing a project with a 637 at the Yuma test range. He looked back to see if he had a full load and saw several munitions sticking out of the top of the load. Stopped, jumped off the scraper and ran as fast as he could. Oops.

 

[RjCorazza]

Years ago and operator of a scraper told me that he was doing a project with a 637 at the Yuma test range. He looked back to see if he had a full load and saw several munitions sticking out of the top of the load. Stopped, jumped off the scraper and ran as fast as he could. Oops.

Back in the early 90's we got a day permit to hike somewhere on the Yuma Proving Grounds, and that wouldn't surprise me at all. The amount of spent munitions, rocket or missile parts, and other military debris was amazing. I think I still have a 50 cal casing that was stamped in 1944 (forget the actual stamp, but my "guide" said it was from WW2 Training).

 

[azbinder]

Back in the early 90's we got a day permit to hike somewhere on the Yuma Proving Grounds, and that wouldn't surprise me at all. The amount of spent munitions, rocket or missile parts, and other military debris was amazing. I think I still have a 50 cal casing that was stamped in 1944 (forget the actual stamp, but my "guide" said i was from WW2

Back in the early 90's we got a day permit to hike somewhere on the Yuma Proving Grounds, and that wouldn't surprise me at all. The amount of spent munitions, rocket or missile parts, and other military debris was amazing. I think I still have a 50 cal casing that was stamped in 1944 (forget the actual stamp, but my "guide" said it was from WW2 Training).

In the late 70's I was working on a cotton farm in SW Arizona. Boss's son has a farm about 12 miles N of Dateland, AZ. He was irrigating one day, shoveling some rows over and hit something metalic. Dug it up and held it on his arm while he scraped it off with his shovel. Saw some markings on it, "US Army Anti-Tank Mine". Dick laid it down very carefully, and RAN like hell. Called the YPG in Yuma and they said that they would not do anything about it, so he called the AZ DPS and the came out and picked it up. Where he was farming was on the grounds of Gen. Patton's Army Desert Corp training grounds from WWII.

 

[Fallon]

We've trenched in the yard a few times without locating my stuff, but did have 811 do their thing. First time between the house & the barn over the top of the water, power & phone lines up to the barn. Weren't to worried about hitting them as we were replacing the power line & dropping a new conduit for data/phone in. Surprisingly we didn't cut those lines. Did go through the downspout pipe though, but we knew that was going to happen. Was easier to repair that than avoid it. 2nd time years later the well 30' from the house died due to wiring issues between the house & well. That pipe & wire ran perpendicular under the previous wiring we'd put in. They used a vac truck to excavate down about 2' through all the other conduit & wiring without breaking anything.

 

[orezok]

About 15 years ago, I was tearing down and replacing a High School in Indio CA. The electric that ran through the entire site was 4160v. While location was able to locate all of it, we potholed numerous locations using vacuum trucks. No shovels for this kind of project.