Case 188 Timing

[CrispyCritter]

I am not a diesel mechanic and am helping a buddy with this project ............
Have older 580CK and recently had the injector pump rebuilt (Roosa - advance ring broken up)
Now have a lot of crankcase pressure.
I was unaware about 'Timing' the pump so just put it back rotated as vertical as possible.
I've subsequently found out it should be timed to 8 deg. BTDC.
Question.....
1.) As it's an older motor ..... If the static timing is too far advanced, could this affect the amount of blow-by (an increase) by causing the combustion process to be higher than it should be (maybe earlier detonation)? ..... the dipstick is blowing halfway out - and - I believe the breather is not blocked.
2.) Should static timing 'usually' be sufficient or is it necessary to get the clear plastic window to check advance?
3.) Where is the view-port to see the flywheel timing marks? (I don't have the unit here right now to explore)

Thanks and regards

 

[thepumpguysc]

I think its by the starter..
Some older mdls timed at TDC.. while others were at 8* BTDC..
The pressure might be coming from where u put it on & rolled the drive shaft seals..
CHECK the oil level.!!! it might be full of diesel fuel..
Was the rebuild a "kitchen table" job.??

U don't need a window..heres how u do it..
Once u find out the correct engine *'s.. Rotate the engine BY HAND in the CORRECT engine rotation..
until u get to said *'s on the flywheel..
THEN remove the side window on the pump.. its gonna be full of fuel so be careful..
I forgot to mention>> TURN OFF THE FUEL AT THE TANK.. or pinch any rubber hose..
Once it stops draining.. there should be a stationary line behind the window.. theres also 1 that rotates..
BOTH LINES should be in the window.. IF THEY ARENT, your on the wrong stroke.. rotate the engine 1 full turn..
So now ur on the right stroke & both lines are in the window..& ur on the correct engine *'s..
Loosen the pump & rotate it until the lines match & lock it down..

U HAVE TO rotate the engine in the CORRECT ROTATION.. otherwise your timing the pump w/ gear train back lash.. & it'll run like crap..
U can find out the rotation by bumping the key & watching the fan..
Good luck & let us know how u make out.. TPG

 

[CrispyCritter]

Hello Pump Guy (and all)
Thanks for your input ........ got to the tractor at the weekend and here's the result(s) .... you did say to let you know
1.) Pump was 'professionally' rebuilt by DCP out of Memphis TN. (not on my wife's best table cloth)
2.) Timing .... Found timing marks on flywheel - rotated normal engine direction until timing lines in the pump aligned. Result = 3deg AfterTDC (yes after!)
3.) Rotated around again to 8 deg BTDC then adjusted pump to align marks.
....... started but had a disturbing 'knock'. (that was NOT apparent when run the previous week - (@ 3deg ATDC)
You mentioned that some 188 motors were timed @ 0deg and not 8deg. How would I know? (all information I have seen mentions 8 deg)
My motor plate reads 'G188D - s/n 2687267' which is a 1970 motor
The diesel pump is a DBGFCC-431-43AJ - (DCP replaced the original 'RoosaMaster' plate for their own)
Now I've read that some Stanadyne (Roosa) pumps can have a "Zero Advance Update Kit" installed, but I don't know at this time if this pump type is relevant or if this was done during rebuild. (I have a query in to DCP and currently waiting for reply - is this apparent with the 'new' label on the pump .... maybe the 'AJ' suffix?)
4.) Oil blowing out the dipstick hole -
...... Found out the crankcase had a load of water in it !!! making the oil level really, really high. (The tractor has been sitting in a field for a couple of years awaiting repair)
so .... drained it out and new oil. Also cleaned out a tad of sludge from breather tube.
Now the dipstick stays in place and the previous 'blow by' is not apparent ..... yay!
5.) Last point of wonder ....... I removed the starter motor to 'jog' the motor round with a screwdriver on the flywheel teeth.
When I took off the starter, a pint/quart of weird color oil flooded out. I had no idea the bell housing was oil filled and still believe it shouldn't be as there was no O ring nor gasket on the starter flange. (The shuttle oil AND level looks fine, so didn't come from there)
Is there any chance I've struck oil ??? whooopeeeee! "up from the ground came-a-bubbling crude" .... etc.
Thanks in advance for any feedback here.
CC

 

[thepumpguysc]

Set the timing to 0* & see what that does.. I'll bet that's what your looking for..
$5.00 says they didn't put the 0* adv kit in..

SOME early starters were "wet" starters.. look for a seal around the bendix area.. or search wet starters for 188.. & look at the parts break down.
WHERE was the flywheel access hole..
I think CASE has a parts/ diagram website.. U can find the answers there..
I'll send u a PM.. or email.

EMAIL sent..

 

[CrispyCritter]

The timing at 8 deg is OK. .... and no advance kit was installed in the pump (apparently). Also the Stanadyne Service Bulletin '335R1' from June 16, 1978 (I got my grubby mits on) does not list my pump as one relevant for the Advance Kit upgrade!
It appears a bunch of crap has made it's way up into the injectors following the pump failure.
The knock was something to do with an injector problem (kind of came and went!)
I noticed a lot of white smoke indicating an unburnt fuel problem.
The exhaust manifold was not hot at one exhaust port also.
I took off the exhaust manifold, got some ear plugs, them ran it up to look at the exhaust.
One cylinder was dumping out white smoke vapor which coincided with the cold exhaust manifold at that port.
I swapped the injector for that cylinder with another and the problem moved to that cylinder. So .......... injector problem.
Got some new ones on order.
Anybody have a comment on the cheap-n-cheerful Chinese aftermarket ones???(Case# A140829 stamped 20671 and 19993)

 

[thepumpguysc]

Some success stories & some not so successful stories.. but for the price, I'd try'm..
U can just about replace a whole set with the aftermarkets for the cost of 1 Stanadyne..
+ they have a better warranty.. Good luck