Cat 0 vs Cat 1

[emery]

I was looking at an ad in Northern Hydraulics for a 3pt tiller and noticed that the one I thought was right for my B9200 uses a cat 0 . How costly and what is involved in adapting my tractor from cat 1 to a cat 0 implement? Thanks

 

[PowerMax]

All you need to do is change your rear PTO speed from 540 rpm (Cat. 1) to 2000 rpm (Cat. 0). I'm not sure, but the direction of rotation may also be opposite. In other words, it may not be as simple as just changing the mounting pins. Cat. 1 implements are much more readily available and usually cheaper.

Just my 2 cents worth, so value accordingly.

Jeff

 

[Darren]

As far as I know, if you have a cat 1 tractor, it'll handle both cat 1 and cat 0 implements. To attach a cat 0 implement, you'll need sleeves to slide over the attachment pins of the implement and increase the diameter to match the inside diameter of the swivels on your lift arms.

You may also be able to change out the pins on the cat 0 implement with larger diameter pins that match your lift arms. The pto shaft should work. The only modification might be changing the length.

 

[wichiwichi]

the only difference between cat 0 and 1 is the size of the pins. You can buy bushing or replace the hitch pins. PTO speed is still 540 RPM.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Original Cat 1 spacing between lift arms is 26", cat 0 is more like 20". Some implements won't fit some tractors of the other category.

 

[PowerMax]

I don't know guys. I've owned Cat. 0 tractors for the past decade (7 different AC/Simplicity large frame garden tractors), and the rear PTO speed is absolutely rated at 2000 rpm. In addition, the PTO shaft (tractor end) is completely different - requires 15 tooth splined male PTO coupler. I just assumed that all Cat. 0's were the same.

The lift arm spacing can be adjusted by turning the lift pins either facing in or out.

I sold all of my PTO driven Cat. 0 (2000 rpm) implements - as I figured none of this stuff would work on my new Cat. 1 (540 rpm) tractor. If this is not the case, then I screwed up and could have saved myself a lot of money.

Jeff

 

[bigpete]

The category refers to the pin sizes, width at the lower pins, and mast height of the top link on the implement. The SAE category ratings are generally based on tractor hp at the PTO not necessarily the rpms or rotational direction.

Most earlier GTs had 2,000 RPM ptos that turned in the opposite direction as 540s, but very few of those are made anymore. The 540 rpm pto is available on most large GTs these days, including the JD 425/445/455 series. I'm not aware of any companies that still build implements or GTs with the 2,000 rpms. Even Befco and Woods make their Cat 0 stuff with 540 rpm gear boxes and shafts.

As to the poster's questions, I have several Cat 0 attachments that came with bushings or a set of Cat 1 pins and a second set larger holes for their use. It's easier to make a Cat 0 attachment work with a Cat 1 tractor than visa-versa. Just make sure the lighter duty attachment will handle the power of the larger tractor.

 

[PowerMax]

Thanks, Pete - for the information. The garden tractors that I had (Simplicity/AC) were all manufactured in the mid-seventies and had 2000 rpm rear PTO's with Cat. 0 3-point hitches. I thought that they also rotated in the opposite direction - but, wasn't sure. So, I guess I did the right thing by selling all the implements that were made specifically for those tractors. I needed shiny new implements, anyway. ;o)

Jeff

 

[bigpete]

Jeff,

You definately did the right thing. They would have never worked on your new setup.

I think there was a period where one of the market leaders in the large GT category, probably Deere, designed their PTO to spin in the opposite direction at a faster speed. I assume the faster speed had some innocent engineering beginnings to compensate for the lower horsepower or something. I suspect that there was also some sort of an attempt to create a proprietary situation where a buyer would have to buy all of his powered implements from the company that built his tractor. I don't know who started it but that era seemed to fade. I'm not a sooth-sayer, but I think the era of the large GT is fading a bit now. Probably due to the introduction of the BX and now with Deere taking their last true large GT and expanding the specs on its lift and PTO. You can sure get a lot of breadth and brawn in a 1,300 lb tractor these days.

By the way, did you ever sell that Simplicity Power Max (4010 I think)? What a great looking little tractor /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif !

Regards,

 

[bigpete]

Jeff,

Ooops--4040H, not 4010. I found your original post.

That's the kind of collector's item I'd like to get my hands on. There doesn't appear to be much left to renovate on that one.

 

[PowerMax]

Pete,

Thanks, again. The 4040H PowerMax is a really nice tractor with very low hours. It needs nothing and is ready to go. They are definitely fast becoming collectors items. Really well constructed, work-horse tractors, too. I still have a 48" Woods brush hog available for it, also. Make me an offer on the whole package - my new B2910 is on its way. Finalized the deal today!

Jeff

 

[bigpete]

Well, Jeff, you're a full day's drive away and I don't even have a trailer. I'm sure we can overcome those things but I'd need to convince the wife of the beauty of a tractor I wouldn't use that often. I'll start tonight but I won't even bother making you an offer until SHE wants to put her britches in the saddle. I managed to do that with my 445, but that thing is easier to drive than my Ford Taurus.

I guess that brush hog is a 2,000 rpm backward-spinner, too. Did the 4040H have power steering and hydraulic deck lift?

 

[PowerMax]

Pete,

Yes it has hydraulic lift w/ position control for the mower deck - works off of the 3-point, just like the new ones. No power steering, but it doesn't need it, as it steers really nice. Pretty simple operation - with the hand operated (3-range) hydrostat and live, independent PTO's. Yes, the Woods Billy Goat is a 2000 rpm, backward spinner. ;o)

I think you'd use it a lot more than you think. You'd probably start using it more than the 445. Heck, just shoot across PA and you're here. I'm 100 miles west of Pittsburgh. Check on www.simpletractors.com for more information on these tractors. They have quite a following.

Jeff

 

[Soundguy]

Wasn't one of the older cub-cadets that also had a weird rear pto arangement?

Chris

 

[bigpete]

I think you're right. For awhile, the 2,000 RPM was adopted as a sort of "standard" for big GTs. I'm guessing either IH/Cub or JD started it. Those two were the biggest players in that niche market. I think there were several small ag tractors that had the same specs. Somebody finally figured out it was just as easy and effective to have a true standard in the 540. There must have been enough faster PTOs around to cause quite a few secondary manufacturers, e.g. roller pump manufacturers, to put a 2,000 RPM model in their line up.

Just waiting for a true historian to clarify all of my conjecture.