CDL - how much of an expense and hassle is it?

[cockeyedMFer]

Have been looking doing the math on a new truck, and with my current 12k trailer, a F350 or 3500 will put me right at the CDL limit. This would prevent me from using a larger 15k trailer that I have access to, and kinda puts a damper on my plans.
And since its for business use, I really can't get around it in good conscience. But it looks like a big can of worms.

According to our highway patrol, I'll be a "private carrier" since I'm hauling my own inventory, not hauling for hire.

If I upgrade to CDL, what kind of expense and complications am I looking at? Is insurance higher for a CDL truck vs non CDL? (still a commercial policy either way). I imagine registration for a 30k lb gross truck can't be cheap.

What about weigh stations, log books, etc? I'll be going further than 100 miles from home and interstate...Can I expect greater law enforcement scrutiny?


My other option is to get a truck with a larger GVW - like a box truck, but keep the trailer under 10k GVW which would keep me out of CDL territory. I need to be able to pull a car trailer as well as haul parts in some type of enclosure. I never know what kind of inventory I might be buying from one month to the next, so I need to be flexible.

 

[newbury]

What state are you in? Different states implement the rules in different ways.

For example read my thread on tongue-weight

 

[cockeyedMFer]

That was an interesting thread that shows the exact problems I'm concerned about.

I'm in Ohio, so I have to register with DOT and PUCO.

 

[patchnball]

I believe you would need a class A CDL with your 15K trailer. You would want to join a Health care group for random drug testing...required, Physical every two years by an approved physician....can't just go to any doctor...new reg as of May ,1 2014 I believe. Annual inspection of truck and paper work. Not a fun thing for a small company.........

 

[QRTRHRS]

I believe you would need a class A CDL with your 15K trailer. You would want to join a Health care group for random drug testing...required, Physical every two years by an approved physician....can't just go to any doctor...new reg as of May ,1 2014 I believe. Annual inspection of truck and paper work. Not a fun thing for a small company.........

I just had a physical this month. No physician, the box on the card is checked off "Advanced Practical Nurse" but she was approved. FWIW, the med card is about post card size, 3x5 inches. Kind of large for your average wallet. I was wondering if the card could be laminated and/or folded so I called KY DOT and luckily hooked up with the person that takes care of the filing who told me yes, I could legally do both.

Again, FWIW, if I understand it correctly, if you hold a valid CDL in KY, you must now have a current med card.

I would advise thorough research going interstate with any commercial application regardless of trailer weight.

You may want to look into leasing from Penske or Ryder since the application is for a business. Might be cheaper than going it on your own if doable.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I was reading the MD rules yesterday, and it appears you need medical card but no CDL at 10K, CDL at 26K. correct me if im wrong for MD. The more I read, the more confused I got. Also was checking on my Truck/Trailer weights. My truck is listed 9200 GVWR, but says 7000 on the registration. It is supposed to weigh 5720 empty. My trailor has two 3500 axles, Title says GVW is 7000, weight is 1400. Registration says 3000. I have no idea why the trailer registration is less than the full amount. Been that way since it was new.

 

[3930dave]

Have been looking doing the math on a new truck, and with my current 12k trailer, a F350 or 3500 will put me right at the CDL limit. This would prevent me from using a larger 15k trailer that I have access to, and kinda puts a damper on my plans.
And since its for business use, I really can't get around it in good conscience. But it looks like a big can of worms.

According to our highway patrol, I'll be a "private carrier" since I'm hauling my own inventory, not hauling for hire.

If I upgrade to CDL, what kind of expense and complications am I looking at? Is insurance higher for a CDL truck vs non CDL? (still a commercial policy either way). I imagine registration for a 30k lb gross truck can't be cheap.

What about weigh stations, log books, etc? I'll be going further than 100 miles from home and interstate...Can I expect greater law enforcement scrutiny?


My other option is to get a truck with a larger GVW - like a box truck, but keep the trailer under 10k GVW which would keep me out of CDL territory. I need to be able to pull a car trailer as well as haul parts in some type of enclosure. I never know what kind of inventory I might be buying from one month to the next, so I need to be flexible.

I won't pretend to know the Ohio regs, as I'm barely up to speed on my province's regs... and that's after a bit of study.....

I'd say the fastest way to get a real answer is go into a big DOT office, and talk to somebody senior, about the license classes.

I'm may be getting slower (brain wise), but reading regs is a good way to get a headache. What was done here was a Class A (tractor trailer) Restricted was created, for situations similar to yours.

Here, the only way to tow a non-RV greater than 10,000# is with a Class A CDL. The restricted class A was created for the guy who wants to tow a utility trailer over 10,000# with a one ton, etc, but doesn't want to get into air-brakes.

Once you get through the decoder ring session, it sort of makes sense what they did..... well, at least for a Govt operation.....

No idea if the Ohio regs are similar, but I've found the fast way to make sense of the regs is to go to a big DOT office. Here, I found out that I could test for a Class D (CDL straight truck), using Budget's biggest rental truck that you can drive with our general G class...... simpler than I would have thought.

We have a separate endorsement here for Air Brake (Z). I took that course and test over 2 days recently. Doesn't hurt to read up ahead of time, but as long as you pay attention, it's not a hard course.

(Edit - 2 contractors I know said their insurance dropped quite a bit when they went Commercial. Doesn't make sense to me (and, YMMV), but I know both guys well enough to believe them.)

Rgds, D.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I was reading the MD rules yesterday, and it appears you need medical card but no CDL at 10K, CDL at 26K. correct me if im wrong for MD. The more I read, the more confused I got. Also was checking on my Truck/Trailer weights. My truck is listed 9200 GVWR, but says 7000 on the registration. It is supposed to weigh 5720 empty. My trailor has two 3500 axles, Title says GVW is 7000, weight is 1400. Registration says 3000. I have no idea why the trailer registration is less than the full amount. Been that way since it was new.

Well, it's a registration issue. Basically it's going to cost you. Legally you are limited to 7K on the truck and 3K on the trailer. This includes both empty weighs so for example you are only legally allowed 1600# of payload on your trailer.

You will have to get each re registered at the proper weights.

Chris

 

[newbury]

I was reading the MD rules yesterday, and it appears you need medical card but no CDL at 10K, CDL at 26K. correct me if im wrong for MD. The more I read, the more confused I got. Also was checking on my Truck/Trailer weights. My truck is listed 9200 GVWR, but says 7000 on the registration. It is supposed to weigh 5720 empty. My trailor has two 3500 axles, Title says GVW is 7000, weight is 1400. Registration says 3000. I have no idea why the trailer registration is less than the full amount. Been that way since it was new.

You've saved a lot of money. Registration fees for trucks in Md:

E Trucks (3/4 ton or 7,000 lbs. or less) $161.50
E Trucks (10,000 lbs. GVW [1/2 or 3/4 ton]) $214.00

Trailers
G Trailer 3,000 lbs. or less $51.00*
G Trailer 3,001 - 5,000 lbs. $102.00*
G Trailer 5,001 - 10,000 lbs. $160.00*

So by registering them for underweight you've probably been able to save about $150 a year!!

I registered my dually and trailer in Virginia - when I went to register the clerk said I could register for less weight - didn't seem worth it to me.

/edit - if you do decide to re-register please post her the process and the ease or difficulty.
Fees for Registration Plates

 

[breadtrk]

If you have an accident and you are 1 pound over the registered rates, you are wrong. Insurance won't pay out, you will get a ticket, if heaven forbid, someone gets killed, you will be charged with some kind of manslaughter.

Re register everything to the actual weights on the plates on the equipment, not whatever paperwork you have, look at the trailer and truck, they are marked.

Talking about the cost is nonsense when compared to what being illegal can cost you.

 

[cockeyedMFer]

After some more phone calls, I've got some answers. 3930Dave is correct on the medical card for over 10k. That's the minimum I'd need regardless.

For Non CDL work -
DOT number: Technically I should have this for travelling commercially out of state with a combination over 10k. Simple form, fill out online plus a mail in form. Unless you pay a registration company $300 to do it for you, it appears to be free or just a small fee. You'll also probably get spammed by a dozen sales companies once your contact info becomes public record... Also Ohio's PUCO will use your DOT number, so not much extra hassle there I believe.

Application here How do I get a USDOT number? | Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

But with the DOT # comes the whole enchilada -log book with hours of service requirement and must stop at scale when over 150 air miles from home, annual DOT inspection, must carry triangles/flares/fire extinguisher, medical card, etc.
I found a local Ford dealer who does the DOT annual that includes the safety equip for $229, and they'll maintain your records for you.

So at that point, you're pretty much doing all the stuff required for CDL. If you go the CDL route you'll also need an IFTA fuel tax sticker which also requires a quarterly(?) tax filing.

That's about all I can find at the moment except for insurance cost. Certainly a hassle but my biggest concern is making sure I can meet all the rules, which I've never had to do before.

Now I've also been told that if I'm running just a truck and trailer under 26k, and I'm a one man operation hauling my own stuff, I can probably exist within the gray areas if the equipment is registered to myself. Especially if its car related, since there's no obvious commercial tie-in. Which is pretty much how I've been running for years as a hobbyist/sole proprietor.

For example, if you're a tractor collector from Ohio who buys a couple tractors at a farm sale in Indiana, and you plan on maybe selling one of them to a buddy when you get back home, you're probably in the same gray area.

 

[cockeyedMFer]

In case any one is curious how the logbook/hours of service works, here are some samples

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.dot.gov/files/docs/2014_HOS_Logbook_Examples_508.pdf

 

[HHR]

All the places around me charge $50-$70 for an annual DOT inspection (as long as nothing has to be repaired).

 

[scott_vt]

I believe you would need a class A CDL with your 15K trailer. You would want to join a Health care group for random drug testing...required, Physical every two years by an approved physician....can't just go to any doctor...new reg as of May ,1 2014 I believe. Annual inspection of truck and paper work. Not a fun thing for a small company.........

Good Afternoon cockeyedMFer,
As patchnball states you need a physical every two years, but if you take any type of medication, such as BP meds you are required to take a yearly physical. You need to carry your medical card at all times.

Also if you drive commercial vehicles you have to register for random drug screening !

Im not familiar with Ohio regs, but ant commercial vehicle will be more expensive to insure also.

 

[cockeyedMFer]

Thanks, I wasn't aware of the drug screening requirement. Fortunately I'm not on any meds yet...but this is getting my BP up for sure!

 

[scott_vt]

cockedeyedMFer,
I do some part time work hauling and delivering petroleum products, and it gets even more crazy on things that you have to have. Special endorsements on your CDL along with carrying a TWIC card to allow you into the oil terminals. The GOVT has more of my fingerprints than I do !

 

[Bird]

The whole world gets more complicated and more expensive all the time. :laughing::laughing:

I'm sure I'm not the only TBN member that's old enough to remember how simple it used to be.

I got a drivers license when I was 16 in Marlow, OK (early 1956), a little written test and took the state trooper for a short ride. Then I did the same in McKinney, TX (late 1956) when we moved to Texas. Of course that was all the license required for motorcycles, too.

But then we had some customers in Dad's service station who had tractor/trailer rigs we serviced; gasoline powered, manual transmissions. So I went back to McKinney (1957 or '58) and took the written test only to drive big trucks; such things as weight limits, height and length limits, lighting requirements, etc.

In 1959, I was working for the Dallas Post Office and went and took another written test only for a chauffeur's license (required to haul passengers for hire) and I became a part time taxi cab driver for a moonlighting job. And while working nights in the Post Office (1960-61 or maybe a year later) I drove a school bus for one year for a moonlighting job. So that made me licensed to drive anything you could put on the road.:laughing:

I believe it was 1969 when Texas started requiring a motorcycle endorsement; separate written and driving test. At the time, I had a little 308cc Yamaha motorcycle, so it was back to the license station (that time in Farmers Branch) for the motorcycle endorsement.

And all of those put together wouldn't amount to half the hassle and expense of getting a CDL today.:laughing::laughing:

I kept my license up to date until Texas sent me a letter that I'd revert back to a standard operator's license (with motorcycle endorsement) unless I came in for new written and driving tests, and with a commercial vehicle for the driving test for a CDL, and at double the license cost for half the length of time. I didn't need it so I went back to the standard operator's license. I kept the motorcycle endorsement for several years, even though I sold my last motorcycle in 1988. It only cost an extra $5 each renewal, but I finally dropped that, too, a few years ago.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Thanks, I wasn't aware of the drug screening requirement. Fortunately I'm not on any meds yet...but this is getting my BP up for sure!

Don't forget you also can not transport alcohol. Not even a warm 6 pack.

Chris

 

[tcartwri]

Don't forget you also can not transport alcohol. Not even a warm 6 pack.

Chris

I've often wondered if they would extend this to your personal vehicle.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I know the legal limit for drinking gets cut to .04 regardless of whether your in a CMV or not. Also, I thought the IFTA was for over ~56k registered weight?

Actually getting your CDL is not expensive or overly difficult. About $500 and a couple hours of your time. Gotta go the medical exam, take the written test, and then go take the driving test. I guess all in all it prolly could take 8 hours total. Don't hesisitate to go take it, it opens alot of jobs up to you and also the requirements are going to change in 2016? to add restrictions based on the type of vehicle that you test in.

I guess I should also add that I don't haul for profit per say. I got my CDL because of all of the crackdowns on hot shotter's in the area. Everyone with a business name on the door of their vehicle was getting pulled over and weighed. Add to that the weights of the trailers I was towing, I had to be careful because they would put me over the 26k threshold. So it was just easier to get the license and not worry about the weights or the air brakes anymore. I don't haul out of state(usually) and its usually farm related so I never get a second look.