Central AC Brands

/ Central AC Brands #1  

Tdog

Platinum Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2001
Messages
938
Location
SE Louisiana
Tractor
BX22
I have two 4 ton heat pumps that are getting on in years - - one is 10, the other is 12. These are all-in-one units, there is no condensor in the attic. They are working fine right now, but I know they can't last forever.

I've been trying to learn if there are any brands that I should especially look for or avoid. I've been told to avoid any use of aluminum coils - - and I've been told that that used to be true, but now aluminum was OK & is warranted for 10 years.

Geez. Ignorance is not bliss. Does anyone have information on this topic?

Thanks,

Jack
 
/ Central AC Brands #2  
Hello, I am not a HVAC guy so take my 2 cents with a grain of salt.

If your units are as old as you say they are you can probaly save about 25% on electricity in the summer by upgrading to new units with a 13 14 or now I think they have a 15 seer rating.

In the desert Southwest we call the kind you have a "Package Unit". IMO one of the cheaper/ less expensive units available now is the Goodman that has a great warranty. I put Goodman and Rheem in the Homes I build. I have not had any problems with them, and our climate really works them. It is 118* here this afternoon for the third day in a row.

I thought all the condenser coils where made out of alum. I don't think there is a problem with that. Good Luck
 
/ Central AC Brands #3  
i second that opinion on Goodman equipment: i've used it several times with no problems: i have a link where you can buy the units yourself, i think its acdirect.com ...i much prefer a package unit over the split system: even though everyone says the split system operates cheaper..they are easily changed by anyone as long as the ductwork is ok.
heehaw
 
/ Central AC Brands #4  
I thought all the condenser coils where made out of alum.

Nope



Flip a coin . There all about the same. Of course, I can get more $ for a trane.You know, It's hard to stop a trame ;)
 
/ Central AC Brands #5  
Several years ago, my AC went out. Weather was such that I had some time to do research. I got several estimates and at that time replacing just the inside unit would have been something like $3500, parts and labor, as I recall.

The estimates told me the size of unit and seer ratings I could get locally and what I needed. Age and seer rating of outside unit argued for its replacement, too.

Then, did web research. I discovered that there are dealers that will ship the units you need directly to your home. I discovered that I could get replacement inside AND outside units delivered for something like $2200.

Called around and found a certified technician who agreed to install both for something like $500.

So, I got a GOODMAN complete unit delivered, from somewhere in Florida, don't recall the dealer, and had it installed by local technician.

That was about 4 years ago. Unit still is working. I had one switch go out which the same technician replaced for something like $120.

I'm still $$ ahead by purchasing over the internet and finding my own local installer. Yes, I did net research and made phone calls and made my own determination that the dealer in Florida is legitimate and reputable.

I'd do the same again, hope I don't have to for some years more.
 
/ Central AC Brands #6  
Only problem about buying over the net is, If someone installs it & it doesn't work. Do you pay for shipping back ?? I have installed water heaters that people have bought over the net. When they don't work people expect you to un-install & re- install for the same $ . I stopped doing these self purchase installs for that reason. I have purchased & installed new A/C equipment & have to go back take it out return the equipment because of leaks , etc,. It could cost you more $ in the long run buying it yourself & having someone do the install. It's your $ and you are taking a gamble that all goes well with the install & the equipment
 
/ Central AC Brands #7  
Tdog said:
I have two 4 ton heat pumps that are getting on in years - - one is 10, the other is 12. These are all-in-one units, there is no condensor in the attic. They are working fine right now, but I know they can't last forever.

I've been trying to learn if there are any brands that I should especially look for or avoid. I've been told to avoid any use of aluminum coils - - and I've been told that that used to be true, but now aluminum was OK & is warranted for 10 years.

Geez. Ignorance is not bliss. Does anyone have information on this topic?

Thanks,

Jack


These are called package units.
 
/ Central AC Brands #8  
Kenmac is right, you are self insuring... I decided to do that for the very significant $ difference. It was my risk, my choice. Dealer in Fla did say that if something happened the warranty was thru them... on my one repair, it was a small cost thus I didn't even bother with contacting them.
 
/ Central AC Brands #9  
I don't think I've ever seen a Goodman unit. Of course there are a lot of brands I never even heard of listed here. My first house was an old one and had Lennox heat but window unit air-conditioning. The two new houses I bought had Carrier and I was satisfied with them. The last one was over 11 years old when I sold the house and it had never had any service other than me cleaning it and oiling the motors. And now I have a Rheem heat pump. It's working well, but it's a 1999 model; i.e., 9 years old, so I don't know how long it'll last.
 
/ Central AC Brands #10  
Nice to hear something good about the goodman units. In the AC forums they get bad mouthed something awful. Course in that forum, everyone is calling everyone else an idiot so I don't go there very often, another reason TBN is such a great forum, people are civil here.
I'm in the same boat as the original poster, my units are now 11 yrs old on 10
SEER units. I bought them wholesale (3 ton split and 3 1/2 ton split) for about $1000 each and had a guy install them when I built my house. I want to move one unit, so am considering replacing it . The quote I have been getting from installers now are ridiculous, over $13K for a 3 ton unit. One of these quotes is thru Home Depot (who used to sell goodman in their stores years ago) who is now pushing Trane via their contractor services. Trane is a great product, so is Carrier, so is Lennox, so is Ruud and Rheem. It's just a shame what the EPA has done to restrict the AC industry.
I have looked at Goodman on the internet sites, but the problem is finding someone willing to install for you. Goodman states on their web page they won't warrent a unit sold on the internet. I currently have RUUD (same as Rheem), they have worked great. Local distributor quit carrying them though.
 
/ Central AC Brands #11  
We have half a dozen Goodman's on the rentals. The balance being whatever else was there when we bought the property. Only one has been a problem child and it was under warranty. I like 'em. They are made of pretty generic
parts so if somthing does happen, a replacement part can be found quickly.
No ordering stuff and waiting.
 
/ Central AC Brands #13  
from the link i listed, a 3ton Goodman package unit is about $3,000..
heehaw
 
/ Central AC Brands
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Thanks for all the replies. As I said, my units are still working fine, so I'm not spending any $$ till they are beyond reasonable repair. Interesting to get the info on Goodmans - - that’s one I have not heard of, not that that means anything. I asked the guy I’ve been using for AC service what brand he installs - - it’s American Standard. I like the guy - - I’m sure he’s honest. Till I know better, I guess I’ll stick with him.
 
/ Central AC Brands #15  
I was in the window air conditioning business for 38 years and the Goodmans that we saw were almost identical to Amana units and must have been made by Amana. We did not handle central units.
 
/ Central AC Brands #16  
Amana owns Goodman, which also produces Everest. Amana is on the selling block yet AGAIN (perhaps they sold, might of missed it).

American Standard (now changed their name to Trane, which dropped their plumbing division line) owns Trane. American Standards bilder grade is Ameristar. Trane has a builders grade as well. Company used to be "GE".

Lennox Industries owns Lennox International (Dave Lennox as you know him) also owns Advance distributor products (who makes coils and air handlers for other "non Lennox industries" brands as well. Also own Allied Air, which manufacturers Whilrpool, Concord, Armstrong and Air Ease. Also owns Excel comfort systems which manufacturers Ducane and Lennox's oil furnaces as well as the builders grade AirFlow.

Nordyne, which owns and manufacturers miller mobile home equipment, also manufacturers Tappan, Fridgedaire (sp?), Maytag, Westinghouse and Gibson (sure I'm missing a couple there).

"Carrier" manufacturers Bryant and Payne. Their oil furnaces used to be manufacturered by a company in Canada.

Carrier also owns ICP, who manufacturers Tempstar and Heil.

Dunkirk, out of New York, used to manufacturer Carriers and Lennox's boilers, not sure now.

Burnham (boiler manufactuerer in Pa) owns Thermopride, who also used to produce Trane oil furnaces (not sure if they still do).

Rheem and Rhuud are made at the same facility, same company and they also have some "builder grades" as well.

Johnson Controls owns York, who had bought out Coleman. Stylecrest now "owns" Coleman's mobile home division. They also have another line which is at the tip of my tounge, but can't come up with it.

Kenmore, installed by Sears is usually Tempstar and Heil.

Have Comfortmaker as well, which I can't recall who else is in bed with them.

Not sure what Haier has come out with. They moved to Columbia S.C and was supposed to come out with a "super cheap" central unit that would make Goodman look expensive, that was a couple years ago, but hadn't seen anything from them.

I know I'm missing some (many actually), early in the AM and this is from memory.

Tdog, my honest opinion...

Unlike other mechanical products that are sold in the U.S, your HVAC system is most dependent on the quality of installation and service by the company you hire. There are many things a contractor does that the homeowner does not see or know about which can make the installation one of quality, or one that is substandard which can increase the chances of causing problems down the road (and I think of an HVAC system as a "living, breathing" body, something "wrong" in the system can take years for it to show up as a major problem). First couple of examples that comes to mind is if a vacuum is actually pulled in the sytem or if nitrogen is used or what kind of solder the guy is using. When it comes to service work, when a contractor has to replace a compressor, some contractors don't replace the filter drier (which come to mind), which you the homeowner would never know about.

That said, and beleive me, warranties in the HVAC business can be a "smoke and mirrors" game (particularly online). The most important warranty you can get is one which includes labor and from a company who stands behind the work they do, and will make any problem "right". When people hear "warranty", they usually think "free", which is far from the case. Average time homeowner lives in their home is 7 years before moving. Average time before a major component (such as compressor or heat exchanger in a furnace) fails is 13 years. Some warranties are transferable, some are not.

Keep in mind, a reversing valve about 1/5th the cost of a compressor. However, labor wise, that reversing valve will run you at least half the cost of a compressor in labor.

Personally, I always like the comparison of the HVAC business to the Auto business when it comes to warranties. Which has the better warranty, a BMW or Hyundai (sp?)? There is a reason why some auto manufacturers have increased their warranties. There are also many things that may not be included in that warranty, or rules and stipulations that the car owner must abide by to keep that warranty valid.

If you feel comfortable with the contractor using American Standard, use him. You aren't buying equipment, you're buying a service. Your contractor feels good about American Standard and the service he recieves from that manufacturer. Guys who do good, quality work in both service and installation usually do charge more. They also stand behind their work, and they will make sure you're satisfied. That said, some companies have a huge fleet of service techs, and are on call 24/7. A smaller contractor may only do service himself. On a 95 degree day, if you have a problem, the question is how fast can your system be serviced? Overhead for larger companies is enormous. They've also been in business for a long time, and you know where they are at. Common sense should tell you that their rates may be a little more.

And yes, some guys will ripp you off.

May sound strange, but my honest opinion is to stay away from the guys who have the cheapest service rate out there. I've seen too many go out of business (they usually get or stay in business from rental property owners because they do it cheap and can get the work to keep busy). Why do you think they have the time to do large rental properties and nothing else?

That is not to say that every tech who does service for rental properties does substandard work, just a generalization that I've observed.

Seriously, if one HVAC line was that much better than all the rest, ALL the contractors would be using that line.

That said, some quotes will vary because of what is being quoted. SEER rating (EER rating is actually more important), HSPF rating, variable or non variable speed, what type of t-stat, ductwork, new copper lines, electrical...the list can go on and on. A quality contractor will point out to you what he's quoting you and why he's quoting you what materials. My point is to make sure you're comparing "apples to apples".
 
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/ Central AC Brands
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Wow, Sigarms, you know some stuff! I appreciate the background manufacturer info and especially your advice. My gut feeling was to stick with my guy - - I like him & he was recommended by someone local.

One more question - - I've read that 13 SEER is the starting point these days. Is that true? Also, is there any recommended level beyond which your returns are minimal? I'd be willing to pay to up the efficiency rating up to some point for decent return in energy savngs. I don't plan to move so pay back over the years is a factor.

Thanks,

Jack
 
/ Central AC Brands #18  
Tdog said:
Wow, Sigarms, you know some stuff! I appreciate the background manufacturer info and especially your advice. My gut feeling was to stick with my guy - - I like him & he was recommended by someone local.

One more question - - I've read that 13 SEER is the starting point these days. Is that true? Also, is there any recommended level beyond which your returns are minimal? I'd be willing to pay to up the efficiency rating up to some point for decent return in energy savngs. I don't plan to move so pay back over the years is a factor.

Thanks,

Jack


Yes 13 seer is ( for now ) is the starting point. It's hard to figure cost savings as, energy are always on the rise. As you may know, the higher the seer the more the cost. My opinion, 16 seer is a good one to go with with a variable speed blower. Of course you can get real fancy & more 4 with 2 stage compressors Etc,etc,. Just myself. I seem to like the simple stuff. less expensive to work on as far as parts/ labor
 
/ Central AC Brands #19  
Great post Sig,

I should clarify my good fortune with Goodman HVAC. My installer is family, been at it for 30+ years, does many different installs, preforms all the steps Sig talks about, etc.... Been there and seen that type of guy. Actually has taught me enough to get an idea of what's wrong before I call him.
 
/ Central AC Brands #20  
When I was talking about 16 seer 2 stage compressors, vaariable speed blower I was speaking of split systems. I talke with a supplier & , all they keep in stock for goodman is a 13 seer package unit. They said that they could have a 16 seer built. 14 seer package unit is what rheem supplier has in stock. Don't let someone sell you a left over R22 unit at a cheaper price . Get a R410 unit
 
 
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