Cheap FEL cylinders keep bending

[LittleBill21]

Well i guess im going to break my mahindra loader. my front tires are off the ground more than they are on the ground when using the loader. i am routinely back dragging.

 

[the old grind]

That may be a form of hydraulic self leveling. It would use the flow generated by the boom movement to supplement or detract from the curl cylinders.

I suspect proportioning the cylinder sizes could make plumbing simplest/er and the self-leveling 'close enough' if not consistent. I'd also be interested in seeing the circuits.

IMO, that part of tractor hydraulics (& trouble-shooting, etc) is more fun than backing up a guy who can't tell ORB from BSPP w/o-ring. (they're out there)

 

[JWR]

IF, I had a dollar for every time I have back dragged with my loader, I'd easily have the money to go buy a NEW farm tractor with a loader on it!

Of course, I'd buy it with another ALO loader on it, as they are built tough enough that back dragging doesn't hurt them.

SR

Which OEM loaders are made by ALO ? I'm not asking to name every one but generally which brands?

 

[AchingBack]

Well i guess im going to break my mahindra loader. my front tires are off the ground more than they are on the ground when using the loader. i am routinely back dragging.

Keep it up. Some day LittleBill is going to have a big repair bill.

 

[LittleBill21]

Keep it up. Some day LittleBill is going to have a big repair bill.

I will take a picture when it happens. As far as I am concerned it shouldn't.

 

[ptsg]

Back dragging is not a crime!!! It all depends on how it's done, what attachment is being used and how hard it's being used, as it's been pointed out before.

 

[Dmacleo]

Back dragging is not a crime!!! It all depends on how it's done, what attachment is being used and how hard it's being used, as it's been pointed out before.

BackdraggersLivesMatter

 

[ptsg]

BackdraggersLivesMatter

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Which OEM loaders are made by ALO ? I'm not asking to name every one but generally which brands?

Off the top of my head, in OEM farm tractors, many or most Massey, NH, Fendt, many of the European models like Deutz, SAME ect... The loader on my AGCO 5660, I bought that ALO loader, and installed it myself...

I've used many loaders, but ALO are the best loaders I've ever owned or used, I have two and both are VERY high-quality loaders... I believe ALO invented the loader for farm tractors, and as far as I'm concerned, they are still the leaders...

As for back blading with the bucket edge pointed straight down, I've done it too many times to count, including having the front end up off the ground.

SR

 

[LittleBill21]

another video of tim, look at all those angles and back dragging..... tires not even close to the ground. Someone should tell him its not a dozer....lol

 

[the old grind]

I suggest some operators make up for risky operations by being much more skilled if not more experienced. We're not all like Rob & others too, buying 'enough tractor' vs a CUT and stretching its potential. It's a thin line we walk.

 

[LD1]

You all can treat your tractors however you want.

Everyone uses them different, and they are all built different.

NO ONE is saying you cannot backdrag with a loader. NO ONE is saying that if you do you are guaranteed damage.

We are only saying that the CHANCE of damage increases the further dumped your bucket is.

Not sure why this has turned into a pi$$ing match for those of you that like to backdrag with the bucket fully dumped. Congratulations.....your a freaking hero and have a beast of a tractor. Is that what you want people to say?

Alot of people pull from a drawbar on the 3PH to. Its dangerous and can result in a fatal backflip. Does that stop people....nope. I do it. I just understand the limitations. But I dont go bragging about doing it. I dont want to give someone inexperienced with a false sense of security.

The whole backdragging thing with the bucket beyond 45 degrees....think of it like a warning label. You can choose to ignore it or not....but IF something happens....dont come whining and crying about it because I think there is a pretty clear understanding of the risks of what can happen

 

[4570Man]

I suggest some operators make up for risky operations by being much more skilled if not more experienced. We're not all like Rob & others too, buying 'enough tractor' vs a CUT and stretching its potential. It's a thin line we walk.

A farm tractor is no tougher than a cut used proportionally. Of course a machine that’s twice as big will survive more but they’re neither one dozers. They’re neither one construction backhoes either. Any tractor still only has a LOADER their design criteria was LOADING things. They’re not made for pushing, they’re not made for digging, they’re not made for prying, they’re not made for demolition, and they’re definitely not made for ramming. Now obviously people are going to do more than scoop loose material with their tractors but you have to be careful and understand the limitations.

 

[Dmacleo]

another video of tim, look at all those angles and back dragging..... tires not even close to the ground. Someone should tell him its not a dozer....lol

I actually just watched that 2 hours ago LOL

 

[Dmacleo]

You all can treat your tractors however you want.

Everyone uses them different, and they are all built different.

NO ONE is saying you cannot backdrag with a loader. NO ONE is saying that if you do you are guaranteed damage.

We are only saying that the CHANCE of damage increases the further dumped your bucket is.

Not sure why this has turned into a pi$$ing match for those of you that like to backdrag with the bucket fully dumped. Congratulations.....your a freaking hero and have a beast of a tractor. Is that what you want people to say?

Alot of people pull from a drawbar on the 3PH to. Its dangerous and can result in a fatal backflip. Does that stop people....nope. I do it. I just understand the limitations. But I dont go bragging about doing it. I dont want to give someone inexperienced with a false sense of security.

The whole backdragging thing with the bucket beyond 45 degrees....think of it like a warning label. You can choose to ignore it or not....but IF something happens....dont come whining and crying about it because I think there is a pretty clear understanding of the risks of what can happen

I don't disagree with you here. and I also wonder why thread turned out the way it did.
good operator will SEE the warning signs, yeah I posted my experiences with gc series scuts but I also mentioned good operator will know when to stop.
I've been running tractors/equipment for 40+ years (started when I was 10 or so) and while I don't have lot of experience others ahve on certain types the same basics apply. the machine and ground will tell you when you are about to break something.
always err on side of caution and you'll and your machine will be ok.
one thing with backdragging in landscaping functions is the MATERIAL itself plays a huge role.
loam backdrages a heck of a lot easier than gravel does.
listen to your machine, it does talk to you.

 

[wdchyd]

I don’t mind back dragging at all…it’s good for business

this one was bent in two directions, and even needed some gland work too.

 

[JWR]

Off the top of my head, in OEM farm tractors, many or most Massey, NH, Fendt, many of the European models like Deutz, SAME ect... The loader on my AGCO 5660, I bought that ALO loader, and installed it myself...

I've used many loaders, but ALO are the best loaders I've ever owned or used, I have two and both are VERY high-quality loaders... I believe ALO invented the loader for farm tractors, and as far as I'm concerned, they are still the leaders...

As for back blading with the bucket edge pointed straight down, I've done it too many times to count, including having the front end up off the ground.

SR

Good info. Thanks.
I've owned Deere (on a 4700) , Massey(on 2660), and Case (custom mated to a Kubota.) All of them have been very good, no real complaints. The Deere loader would stand more than the tractor could put out. The Massey (DL250 with SSQA) has been challenged with way more loads and devices than it was ever imagined for. Very heavy hyd driven brush cutter, lighter Lane Shark cutter, grapple, 1000 lb 4-in-1 bucket, etc. It is a solid loader but wish I had bought a little heavier DL260. Really I have abused it at times, severe backdragging once, sprung the loader frame trying to dislodge a locust stump with the corner of the bucket, unsprung it bending it backwards using the same stump, etc. No broken welds, ever. Still super tool. Have had chronic troubles with the NIMCO loader valve since brand new, dealer replaced it from AGCO parts depot with yet another bad valve, finally installed kit from NIMCO myself to fix it.

My engineer's eye says the larger model Kubota loaders are a little more stout -- stronger relative to their specs -- but not owned one. Look awfully good.

 

[jeepcj7]

I believe a cylinder with larger diameter cylinder rod will be available in the near future. With that being said that stump bucket really shouldn't be on that loader. There is way too much leverage - if the bucket is at a steep angle and you are driving forward (and you will be if you are trying to pry out stumps) something is going to get stressed - in this case the cylinder rods.

 

[goodspeed9000]

Not OP, but this is my tractor. MASSEY IS AWARE OF THE ISSUE AND IS FIXING IT UNDER WARRANTY along with the joystick that has done nothing but leak or jam. Needless to say I'm over this tractor, but at this point just giving the dealer and manufacturer a chance to make it right before taking further steps. It's been over a week since my last contact, which included a request for details on exactly what is being done, but so far no response.

As some have pointed out it's likely missing the linkage and they will be putting larger diameter cylinders on it. Yes, the cylinders are bent in the video as I wasn't just recording myself working. I simply recorded this video to show the exact motion and position I was in when the bent. This is the 2nd set of cylinders to bend. I watched them bend the 2nd time, exactly in the fashion the video shows. I was curling the bucket downward and at about 2/3 extension they just popped. Tractor was not moving and I did not lift the wheels off of the ground. Cylinders were perfectly straight up to that point as I was watching them like a dog after all of the hell I went through after the 1st set bent. After they kinked this time I jumped off, said a few very inappropriate things, and then got back on it and recorded the video.

Dealer did tell me to get a stump bucket, so that is certainly helping my case. We have a small bobcat in the family so I will only be using it on that going forward to prevent this from happening again.

This is not my first MF tractor and boy do I miss my 451. We beat the ever living crap out of that thing and it always asked for more. It unfortunately was severely damaged when I stupidly left the high/low shifter in neutral after starting it just to lift the bucket off of the ground to keep some logs from rolling out of the bucket. It was parked on the crest of my driveway and rolled backwards about 20 feet hitting a tree and it essentially split in half at the transmission. Dealer fixed it, but there was some contention on the amount of $$ spent on repairs so we worked out a halfway decent deal and traded it for this 2750e.

 

[Torvy]

Not OP, but this is my tractor. MASSEY IS AWARE OF THE ISSUE AND IS FIXING IT UNDER WARRANTY along with the joystick that has done nothing but leak or jam. Needless to say I'm over this tractor, but at this point just giving the dealer and manufacturer a chance to make it right before taking further steps. It's been over a week since my last contact, which included a request for details on exactly what is being done, but so far no response.

As some have pointed out it's likely missing the linkage and they will be putting larger diameter cylinders on it. Yes, the cylinders are bent in the video as I wasn't just recording myself working. I simply recorded this video to show the exact motion and position I was in when the bent. This is the 2nd set of cylinders to bend. I watched them bend the 2nd time, exactly in the fashion the video shows. I was curling the bucket downward and at about 2/3 extension they just popped. Tractor was not moving and I did not lift the wheels off of the ground. Cylinders were perfectly straight up to that point as I was watching them like a dog after all of the hell I went through after the 1st set bent. After they kinked this time I jumped off, said a few very inappropriate things, and then got back on it and recorded the video.

Dealer did tell me to get a stump bucket, so that is certainly helping my case. We have a small bobcat in the family so I will only be using it on that going forward to prevent this from happening again.

This is not my first MF tractor and boy do I miss my 451. We beat the ever living crap out of that thing and it always asked for more. It unfortunately was severely damaged when I stupidly left the high/low shifter in neutral after starting it just to lift the bucket off of the ground to keep some logs from rolling out of the bucket. It was parked on the crest of my driveway and rolled backwards about 20 feet hitting a tree and it essentially split in half at the transmission. Dealer fixed it, but there was some contention on the amount of $$ spent on repairs so we worked out a halfway decent deal and traded it for this 2750e.

Thanks for clarifying that you have a history of abusing your equipment and that, despite that, Massey has been trying to help. Excellent demonstration of a manufacturer going above and beyond.