Chickens, and things related

   / Chickens, and things related #471  
Oh those city people can be such a bummer. Here (in town) could have chickens if the neighbors sign off on it, i think about within 150' away. Let me guess...they are noisy (not hens or chicks), they stink, well anyone can do that depends how clean things are kept, there will be feathers all over, once again, clean up is essential. Heck, i do not see the difference btween chickens and those fancy tropical parrots in the house.
 
   / Chickens, and things related #472  
bmac said:
Now, I have to figure out how to design the rafters for the roof. For no reason in particular, I'm thinking of a 6/12 roof pitch with 1' overhang for the soffits and 1' overhang on the gable ends.

I've never used a framing square for anything other than drawing straight lines and making things square. I know they can be used in rafter design, but I'm not sure how to use it for that purpose.

I looked on the web for a rafter design calculator to help me determine length and angles. I've had only limited success with this. The roof rafters may end up being a trial-and-error progect unless someone here can help me with a template or something.

That'a all for now. Will update when the roof is done.

bmac,

For a small building like what you have built, the simplest roof design is probably the best. You can build trusses, but that's more work and there's really no added benifit.

For a 6:12 pitch roof, place a 2x4 on the center or both end walls so it's standing up horizontally. The math here is really simple for the height of this board. Mesure one quarter of the width of the building and subtract 3 1/2 inches. If your building is 12 feet wide, then the 2x4 needs to be 32 1/2 inches tall. (3ft minus 3 1/2 inches) If your building is 16 feet wide, then the 2x4 needs to be 44 1/2 inches long. This is your support stud.

Brace this with some temporary pieces of wood on the inside of the wall. I just screw in a short piece of scrap to hold it into place.

Now depending on the length of your building, and your desire for a one foot overhang on both ends of the building, place a 2x6 on the top of those two 2x4's that are standing straight up. Lign up that 2x6 so that each end is even.

For exactly a one foot overhang, take into consideration the thickness of your siding and facia board. If you want exactly a one foot soffit, then the overhang should be one foot plus the thickness of your siding past the standing 2x4.

This is your ridge beam. To lock it into position, I like to cut a pair of 2x4's two feet long with 45 degree angles on each end. Then I screw those onto either side of the support stud and up at an angle to the ridge beam.

Now the simple way to do the rafters is to first cut the end off of a 2x6 that is longer then you need it to be. Use a framing square to make this cut or a miter saw. 6:12 is also 22 1/2 degrees, or half of 45 degrees. A 12:12 pitch would have a 45 degree cut, your 6:12 pitch is half of that.

To use the square, and you'll need to use it for your other cuts, lay it flat on the 2x6. Use either the inside numbers, or the ouside numbers. Never mix inside numbers and outside numbers, you only use one or the other. Find the 6 on one end and the 12 on the other end. Line those up on the edge of the 2x6 in such a way that you create the slope you need to cut for your rafter.

It is important that you realize what the angle is that you want to cut in order to line up the square in the right place. For the end cut, it's a simple angle that will give you the top and bottom of the rafter. There are two options here, one will give you a tight fit against your ridge beam, the wrong cut will be a long, shallow cut that wont' fit against the ridge. If you get it wrong, you won't make the same mistake twice. LOL

After you have that first cut made, you can measure for your next cut. You need to measure from the top edge of the ridge beam to the top inside edge of the top plate on the wall. You might need help with this to hold the tape in place, or you can put in a temporare screw or nail to hold the tape at the edge of the ridge beam. It might even be short enough that you can just hold it there and read your measurement.

Transfer that measurement to the 2x6 in the exact same manner that you took it. Hold the tape measure at the farthest point of the angled cut that you already made. Then pull the tape across the 2x6 and to the other side of it, or the bottom side, and mark it.

From that mark, you need to make a cut into the 2x6 so that it will rest solid on your wall. Your wall is probably 4 inches thick with the siding on there.

Use your framing sqare in the oposite way that you used it on your end cut. This time you want a long, shallow cut. Imagine the rafter up against the ridge beam and the rafter resting on the wall. When this cut is made, the rafter will rest solid on the top of the wall.

Draw that line at least four inches long, and measure where that four inch mark is at. If the wall with siding is more then four inches thick, then that is how long you need to measure. Now you can either make a 80 degree line from that point, or use the framing square again exactly like you did on the very first cut. Remember, 6 and 12 on the same side of the framing sqaure.

This is your notch that will rest on top of the wall.

From the bottom of the notch, measure out one foot for your soffit. You can either keep it simple and have an angled soffit, or you can add another piece of wood to create a flat soffit. I'd just leave it alone and keep it simple, but if you want to go flat, let me know and I'll explaing how if you need me to.

At the one foot distance, make a mark at the bottom of the rafter. Use your framing square to cut the end off off the 2x6 so that you have the oposice cut then you have at the other end of the rafter. When in position, this cut will give you a flat line for your facia board. You can also skip this step if you are not going to install a facia board, or if you want your facia board to be at an angle. It's up to you how you want to finish it off.

Check the fit of this first rafter to be sure that it works at all four corners. If it does, use it as a template to make the others. If it doesn't then there is something wrong and you need to find out what's off. If the building is square and the supports are the same height and installed plumb, then the rafter should fit at all four corners exactly the same.

What type of roof are you putting on there? If it's metal, then your spacing of your rafters can be further apart. If it's shingles, then you need to have your rafters at least 2 feet apart, on center so the OSB decking wont sag. Even at 2 ft, you need H clips with OSB.

This is also important in how you will build your overhangs. If you are using metal, then your purlins will create the overhang. If it's shingles, then you need to frame out the overhang.

Either way, you need to cut your facia board from the material you will be using for this.PT 1x6's work, as do a variety of other composit materials that do not rot, but are half an inch to 3/4 of an inch thick. You can use your template for these cuts, but you have to remember that they will be 3/4 of an inch longer then your rafters. That's the width of your ridge beam, and since the facia boards will cover teh end of the ridge beam, they need to be half the width of the ridge bean longer then the rafters. Otherwise, the end cuts are the same, and there is no cutout for it to rest on the wall, since there is no wall for it to rest on.

The space between the rafters is where you will put your vents. Put a solid 2x6 in one space to help secure the raftr to the wall, and in the next space cut out a 2x6 so that you can put a screen over it to allow air to pass through there.

For added strength, you can add a 2x6 to the top of the wall, dead center in the middle of each wall. This will pull the walls together from the natural force of the rafters pushing them out. With the use of a ridge beam, this is minimal on a small structure, but still a good idea for the integrity of the building. It also makes a good place to hang things from.

Eddie
 
   / Chickens, and things related
  • Thread Starter
#473  
Wow Eddie, nice tutorial!

Got some good news today, talked to the inspector and he is looking into letting me keep the chickens, as long as I get them up off the ground, along with their food. Apparently some of my neightbors are keeping garbage cans outside and not locking them up and the township is worried about rats/or there is already a problem with that. The positive of that for me is that my wife is ready to move out to the farm yesterday because of it. I told here there are plenty of coyotes to take care of the rats out there. Unfortunately money and housing market doesn't make that a possibility right now. I will keep you updated when I hear back from the inspector.
 
   / Chickens, and things related #474  
Eddie,

Thanks for the reply. Your description was almost as good as a set of diagrams (maybe better).

Just out of curiosity, on the support stud for the ridge beam, why do you subtract 3 1/2 inches when calculating the height? I could understand 5 1/2 inches as it would account for the height of the 2x6 ridge beam. But 3 1/2 inches has me a little confused (which is pretty easy to do).

Also, I was planning to set the rafters 16" on center. Do I still need the H clips?

Also, assuming I eventually get the rafters cut and installed without breaking any bones (did I tell you I don't like heights?) when I put down the roof sheathing, do I place the edge of the OSB flush with the end of the rafter or do I allow enough overhang to overlap the facia?

Thanks again. I really appreciate the time you spent to type up such a thorough explanation.
 
   / Chickens, and things related #475  
bmac

Sorry, you're right. I got my 2x4's and 2x6's mixed up and didn't catch that. The ridge beam is 5 1/2 inches, so that's what you subtract from the height of your support studs.

Another thing that I forgot was the rest of the studs to fill out the end walls. Just line them up with the studs below, or on 16 inch centers and cut to fit.

Eddie
 
   / Chickens, and things related #476  
Thanks again, Eddie, for the clarification. Any thoughts on the other questions?
 
   / Chickens, and things related #477  
bmac said:
Also, I was planning to set the rafters 16" on center. Do I still need the H clips?

Also, assuming I eventually get the rafters cut and installed without breaking any bones (did I tell you I don't like heights?) when I put down the roof sheathing, do I place the edge of the OSB flush with the end of the rafter or do I allow enough overhang to overlap the facia.

bmac,

Since you said that you are putting down decking, and not purlins, I'm going to assume that you are going to use shingles for the roofing.

With your spacing, pitch and since there's no snow to deal with, you really don't have to use the H clips. They stiffen up the OSB between the rafters, but I honestly don't know if it's code for 16 inches or not. It is for 24 inches.

I like to install the facia boards before the decking. Before you can put them up, you need to have your gable end overhangs built. There are several ways to do this, the easiest is to double or triple up your rafters and have a 3 to 4 1/2 inch overhangl. It's solid and easy to do.

The proper way is to run an stud on edge from the second rafter in so that it rests on the top of the outside rafter. This means cuttind down the outside rafter or notching it. This is code, and the strongest way to get a one foot or longer overhang.

The easy way for a one foot overhang is to first install all of your siding to the peak of the gable ends of the buiding. This should end flush with the top of the rafters.

Now measuer the exact length of your ridge beam, and how far it extends past your siding. This is how long you need to cut your 2x4's. Use 3 or even 3 1/2 inch screws to fasten them through the rafter and have them on their edge. 1 1/2 inch side on top, 3 1/2 inch sides on the side.

Use three screws through the rafter adn then three more toenaild in from the other side. On the toenailed screws, I like to put two on one side, and one on the other.

This will work, but it goes against my grain to install anything that isn't supported by something else underneith. When properly built, every piece of wood should be resting on top of another peice of wood.

You'll notice that the overhang lumber will sort of twist and turn in it's own direction. This is where the facia board comes into play. It's not only to look nice, it's to line up your 2x4's and get them straightened out. Two nails or screws through the fascia board will do the job of securing it all together.

I'm guessing that you will use 1x6 lumber for the fasia. If you go smaller, then you will have to cut your rafter tails down to size. You can use 1x4's if you do this, it's just your call and what you like.

To add a small amout on strenght and allot of appeal, install a 1x2 at the top of the fascia board. This stiffens up the fascia quite a bit and gives the flashing a better chance of sheding water off of the roof. Homes without this strip tend to have fascia's with mildew growing on them from water running off of the roof and over the fascia.

If you are putting gutters on, then don't install the 1x2's on the sides, just the gable ends.

Now it's time to install your OSB decking. Try make the seams for each peice on a different rafter, or at least every other piece. Start at the bottom and work your way up. It's more important to have the full length of OSB on your overhangs. The same is true for your gable ends. Always make sure that every piece of OSB starts at the edge and is fastened into at least two rafters. Three would be allot better. NEVER put a short piece on your overhangs that ends at the walls. It must have multiple rafters on an overhang. If you find that you have short areas inside the middle of the roof, than cut one sheet of OSB shorter. Never have your decking installed just on it's edges. You always want it to be on at least three rafters with four being better. NEVER have it on just two rafters.

You might find that you need a short strip at the peak. That's fine since it's not as important as the fascia ends of your decking.

Once your OSB is in place, install your flashing ordrip edges. A basic 90 degree angle flashing with one end kicked out a little bit is the most common. there is also T flashing that is a little bit more money, but works better. Price wise on a small building is only a few bucks. I always buy the T flashing.

How are you going to vent the building? Roof vent or gable end vents? Both have their advantages, so it's up to you on what you like. The peak vents are the most attractive, but probably overkill for you building. A turbine is proven to be very effective, but sort of ugly. Gable vents should work real good if installed on either end. Probaby add to the charm of the building too. I think that's what I would use, but it's up to you.

Next, you need to get your felt paper up right away. The longer the OSB is exposed to the elements, the rougher it will get. I prefer to staple it on and get the shingles on right away. If you have to leave the felt paper exposed for any period of time, then you will have to nail it down with nails designed for this. I forget what they are called, but you can't miss them. Small nails with giant plastic washers on them. Put them down on the edge of the paper and in the middle about every two feet.

15 pound paper will work and it's used on new roofs all the time. It's half the price of 30 pound paper and lighter to work with. It's also half as thick and in my opinion, half as good. For the money, the paper you use is just about the most important part of the building. I always spend the extra on the paper and buy 30 pound. You won't need much, so it's not really a big savings going with the thinner stuff anyway.

Be sure to roll the paper along the bottom first and work your way up. You can either pre cut your paper with some extra and trim along the edge of the flashing, or you can unroll and cut in place. I unroll and cut a little long, then trim after it's fastened down.

If you are putting in a roof vent, you need to cut the decking for it now. Then when you are installing your paper, you need to put your first layer of paper down so it covers the hole, or at lest part of the hole. Then cut it out for the hole. Then install the vent, and lay down another layer of paper so that it overlaps the vents flashing. On a peak vent, you don't have to worry about the paper until you get to the peak, then it's pretty straight forward. Just be sure not to put the paper over the opening for the air to travel.

Shingles are shingles. Three tab are cheaper, but sort of plain and ugly compared to raised, or archetecural shingles. Matching what you have on the house is always a nice touch, but it doesn't really matter what ones you buy, they all install pretty much the same way.

You start at the bottom. It doesn't matter wich corner you start at, just as long as you start at the bottom. Your first row is called your starter strip. they sell shingles cut for this, or you can turn your shingles upside down and put it in that way. Always have the rock side up. What I do is buy a few bundles of flat 3 tab shingles in the same color as the raised shingls for the starter strip and my peak shingles. They are cheaper and work great for the starter strip. Then install you first shingle. You can work off of the eges as your line, or follow the lines on the tar paper. The bag that the bundles of shingles come in have instructions on where to nail the shingls. I've seen people do it all sorts of ways, but the only correct way is how the instructions on the plastic wrapper says to do it.

Overlap your seams by either using the left over shingle from the first run to start your second, or cut off one or two tabs from the first shingle of your next run. This will put the seams in different places for every three runs.

For the peak, I cut the three tab shingles into three pieces. A standard utility knife works great for this. Start at the ends and work your way in to the middle. When they come together, you will have to cut a final shingle in half to finish it off.

You will notice that they sort of stick up a little and don't lay flat. This is normal and will change when the shingles get hot. The sun will relax the tar in the shingles and melt the glue that holds them together. After just a few days of warm weather, your shingles will lay flat for you.

Have fun,
Eddie
 
   / Chickens, and things related #478  
Eddie,

Again, thank you.

Couple of questions. First, orientation of the roof sheathing. I think 3 sheets per side will do it. My first thought was to do a full sheet horizontally, followed by a half sheet. Then do the same thing on the next row, with the opposite orientation so the seams don't line up.

The second option would be to use 3 full sheets oriented vertically.

Although I say full sheets, I think the rafter length will be somewhat less than 8' (maybe 7 1/2'), although these estimates are from crude geometry calculations.

Is one better than the other?
 

Attachments

  • Roof 1.pdf
    2 KB · Views: 133
  • Roof 2.pdf
    2 KB · Views: 116
   / Chickens, and things related #479  
Also, When installing the fascia, do I need to bevel the top edge to match the slope of the roof so the OSB will lay flat?
 

Attachments

  • ROOF 3.pdf
    7.8 KB · Views: 125
   / Chickens, and things related #480  
Alright, Eddie. I didn't even give you a chance to answer my last questions before I came up with another. Has to do with rafter placement.

Seems like it would be a good idea for the rafters to line up with the wall studs. However, if I do that then the OSB seams will not fall on the rafters as I've off set the roof by 12" (actually, I'm going to have something like a 10 3/4 inch gable overhang so that the overall width of the roof does not exceed 12').

If I arrange the rafters 16" on center starting from the gable end, then the rafters do not line up with the wall studs. Is this critical? I know I'm just making a chicken coop and nothing is really critical, but little things like this really bug me.

Thanks again, Eddie-boy.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2012 CATERPILLAR 279C2 SKID STEER (A51242)
2012 CATERPILLAR...
1997 East Manufacturing Walking-Floor Trailer, VIN # 1E1U1X287VRE22897 (A51572)
1997 East...
2019 Chevrolet Tahoe LT SUV (A51694)
2019 Chevrolet...
2011 Manac 36245B30 43ft T/A Walking Floor Trailer (A50322)
2011 Manac...
MODERN AG PREDATOR 15 15' BATWING MOWER (A51406)
MODERN AG PREDATOR...
Intermodel Metal Storage Crate (A51573)
Intermodel Metal...
 
Top