Clutch Repair Kama 554

[Brad_Blazer]

Okay, I called my supplier and he doesn't have it. Based on Greg's experience it is probably not worth searching further.The OEM should really be fine. Was it getting grease? When you put it back together make sure the greasing system is working.

Brad

 

[greg_g]

Was it getting grease?

The "greasing system" for that particular throwout bearing is the guy that sits in the tractor seat. It requires reaching into the bellhousing with a needle tipped grease gun. One came with my KM454 actually, it's otherwise kinda useless. I've found no other use for it other than to grease the TOBs on both my current tractors at least once a year - so other than that it, just hangs on a nail. For the zerk fittings, I just use a conventionally-tipped grease gun.

//greg//

 

[3RRL]

Interesting about the needle tip grease gun and hole in the throw out bearing.
I didn't know about it at all. I got no tool box with my tractor. I did find that grease fitting behind the TOB seat Support. Like Larry says, it may be redundant since there's an oil seal behind it and it probably has oil on that bearing already.

I will clean the old TOB and look for the little hole.
You cannot see (at least I couldn't) the little hole on my TOB. I asked about the grease fitting on TBN when I first joined. But I didn't know about the TOB grease hole itself.
It would have been good of my dealer letting me know about that little jewel.

What about the throw out bearing seat and the TOB seat support? There is no lube for that either. Would it hurt to add a grease nipple the the seat to lube between the two for easier sliding? Mine was very sticky. I cleaned and papered it so it's perfect now, but I'd think a little lube there would help.
I know you don't want any grease or oil to get on the clutches though.

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Yeah Greg, mine came with the pointy tip grease gun. I read about TOB lube and opened up the little port labeled "pump grease into bearing periodically" and found a zerk. I greased that and thought I was greasing the TOB. I guess I was not. Apparently I need to remove the louvered cover under the FEL mount to access the TOB? My operators manual maintenance schedule mentions that bearing on p.33 under "Third class maintenance" whch appears to be 1000hr maintenance.
"10) Check release bearing 9688213. If it is lack in lubrication, wash it clean, put it into No. 2 calcium-base compound grease and heat it. Then assemble it."

They seem to imply splitting the tractor. Please let us know just how you do it e.g. is the grease hole in the bearing always facing the inspection port or do we need to rotate it into place?

Rob - good point about lubing the sliding ways on the shaft assembly. A light coat of good grease should not sling off. Hopefully the friction material dust will not foul it?

Thanks,
Brad

 

[greg_g]

Dead simple (provided you have unrestricted access to the inspection port). But I misspoke earlier, inadvertently identifying the zerk behind the round black plug with the grease point on the TOB. Sorry bout that.

Anyway. Remove louvered cover, reach in, rotate bearing by hand until you can see the little hole. Little bitty thing - only 2mm diameter - easy to miss on a dirty bearing. Stick the needle tipped grease gun into the little hole, squeeze.

The weakness in this design, is you're only filling one side. So I pump a time or two till it pukes, then rotate the case in hopes of rolling some dry bearings behind the hold. I do this several times, and hope for the best.

A simple sealed bearing would negate the whole requirement, and probably have saved us all this consternation. But I guess nobody makes a suitable sealed replacement. Short of that, this is the time for Rob to really really really really pack the new bearing well before installation and reassembly. I actually overpacked the last one. For a few days it didn't rotate well after a cold start - until friction thinned out the grease. Noisy, but fortunately short lived. And given the fact that you can only pack these things when the tractor is split, I think it's safe to say that a little too much grease is better than not enough

//greg//

 

[greg_g]

What about the throw out bearing seat and the TOB seat support? There is no lube for that either. Would it hurt to add a grease nipple the the seat to lube between the two for easier sliding?

I don't think it's needed. Even though my fingers were ground down, they were nowhere near as bad as yours. Nor did I have any problems with the bearing seat/sleeve motion. I suspect there may have been metal fragments impeding the movement of your sleeve.

I had a tendency to over-engineer projects in my younger days. Still got the scars where some of them bit me in the arse. Now I prefer the simpler approach. So I don't really think you have to worry about adding the capacity to independently grease that sleeve. At least, I wouldn't do it to mine.

//greg//

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Dead simple (provided you have unrestricted access to the inspection port). But I misspoke earlier, inadvertently identifying the zerk behind the round black plug with the grease point on the TOB. Sorry bout that.

Anyway. Remove louvered cover, reach in, rotate bearing by hand until you can see the little hole. Little bitty thing - only 2mm diameter - easy to miss on a dirty bearing. Stick the needle tipped grease gun into the little hole, squeeze.

The weakness in this design, is you're only filling one side. So I pump a time or two till it pukes, then rotate the case in hopes of rolling some dry bearings behind the hold. I do this several times, and hope for the best.

A simple sealed bearing would negate the whole requirement, and probably have saved us all this consternation. But I guess nobody makes a suitable sealed replacement. Short of that, this is the time for Rob to really really really really pack the new bearing well before installation and reassembly. I actually overpacked the last one. For a few days it didn't rotate well after a cold start - until friction thinned out the grease. Noisy, but fortunately short lived. And given the fact that you can only pack these things when the tractor is split, I think it's safe to say that a little too much grease is better than not enough

//greg//

Thanks Greg - that's what I needed to know. I think you are one of the few with a KM series sans loader. I haven't yet accessed that cover because I have to remove 100lbs of loader tower (in addition to the loader) to get to it. 100lb of prevention is worth a ton of cure though! While I'm at it I'll have to look up the relevant threads, including this one, and verify the clutch alignment.

Best regards,
Brad

 

[greg_g]

I think you are one of the few with a KM series sans loader.

My TS354C is the one with the loader (a Koyker 160). KAMA saw fit to offset the inspection window on this model, which permits clutch access despite the loader mount. So I have the good fortune of being able to grease TOBs on both, without restriction.

//greg//

 

[3RRL]

I ordered my stuff from Chip this morning. Parts should be here before Christmas.
He viewed the photos and advised me to buy only the 3 fingers, the TOB and the main clutch plate. He said those PTO clutches rarely go out and that mine was like new. Just need to rough it up a little. The main clutch was almost new also with very little wear from the .370" thickness (new). So I will keep that one for a replacement down the road. My pilot bearing is good too and didn't need to be replaced. He was very good with his advice and saved me a lot of money. He could've easily pushed me to purchase the entire clutch pack and what ever else but he didn't. He is quite a good man and spent a lot of time with me on the phone today. I've gotten a lot of good advice from you other guys too and I sure appreciate it.

Chip advised against using any grease or oil on the sliding TOB seat and support since the dust and residue from clutch wear and dirt might act like grinding dust if it clings to those parts. So I'll assemble everything dry except the splined shaft ends. All I did today was wire brush all the rust off the parts and clean them up. I used acetone to remove any grease and oil. Tomorrow I'll do the same inside the bell housing.

Chip discussed the throw out bearing with me and I mentioned I had never lubed mine. He said some have the pin hole in them and some don't. Mine did not have that pin hole in it.

Oh, when I went to Napa, they looked up the TOB for me. They came up with a match except the OD which is about .080" smaller than the OEM one, but that shouldn't matter. The OD does nothing really. Check it out, it's a N3078 and should work. I'll try it on Friday to see if it's a good press fit to the Seat. I will still install the one I ordered from Chip and keep the Napa one if it fits. Otherwise I'll return it.
I'm also going to wire up my big lathe to make a clutch alignment tool instead of buying one.
Rob-

 

[3RRL]

I thought of that too, but it was too late to edit it into my previous post. That sliding sleeve - which is also the TOB seat - is attached to the clutch fork with two spring steel clips. Its speed and direction should correlate directly with the movement of the clutch pedal. Assuming the engine is running while the pedal is being released, I'm guessing centrifugal force is spinning the sleeve toward the rear. If the whole sleeve - bearing and all - is free, the bearing seat may not actually be scored. In my case, the bearing itself actually moved forward on the seat - scoring it badly in the process.
//greg//

Re-reading some of these earlier posts I can better comment now.
Greg, if your TOB moved off the seat, then the press fit was not adequate. When you re-installed the new TOB, did you tighten the fit between the seat and bearing ID? Or was it a better fit?
My bearing seat only has one spring to pull back, not two like yours. You can see it pretty clearly on these pictures I posted earlier. It's great fun to find out the differences like this one and the TOB with a oil/grease hole in it.