Clutch Repair Kama 554

[3RRL]

Rob, in order to even up the fingers you must bolt the pressure plate, with clutch under it, to the flywheel. You can do this on the bench if you take the flywheel off. I think I would leave the flywheel mounted and just do it on the engine, making all finger to flywheel distances equal.

What would really bother me is not having a good idea of the fault that made this happen. This is not something to be repeated every 1Khrs.
larry

Larry, is setting the fingers all level (even) not part of what Greg said to do on the bench then?
Or they two separate things to do? That is, do what Greg said to do on the bench, then mount the clutch and bolt it to the flywheel to set the finger gaps all even.

I agree knowing what caused this will prevent future failures.
I'll have to inspect both halves next week and become familiar with exactly how it all should operate, like the TB sliding etc. Then possibly I can figure it out?

 

[3RRL]

I was wondering Rob, if you have you RPMs set by the hand throttle, and then operate the tractor, or allow the tractor to idle and just use the foot throttle to control the RPMs. That is a nasty wear through on the fork fingers. Like the T.O. bearing seized, or was dragging a bit. If the clutch is being used at a set operating PRM around 1500, then could the engauging of the T.O. bearing to the fingers just cause the rapid wear? A bit of a puzzle. All the components are very heavy duty looking, and over sized by what I see. I did replace my T.O. bearing in the IH3444 when I did the clutch. It was the same as some heavy tractor trailer rigs. Same number.....and was $18 each. I bought 2 just to have a spare. Thanks for the great documentation, and pictures. Is it possible to just relace the fingers, or fabricate new ones and install them? I would think some 4340 steel would work fine, even without heat treatment.

I generally set the throttle and don't use the foot accelerator pedal.
I also let the clutch out with one smooth stroke and with little slipping. I rarely if ever "slip" the clutch on the tractor except when I really have to like when approaching the final few inches of something really critical. That is not very common though.
I mentioned above the throw out bearing seemed to be lagging or dragging so that might have been part of the problem ... I don't know.
Chip said the fingers are replaceable and 18 bucks each. He also gave me a price for an entire clutch pack. I presume everything I need will be included, but I'll make a list and verify with him before I order the new parts. I don't want to find out I'm missing something I need and have to re-order it later.

Hahaha, I thought about making them out of some 4130 I have in the shop, but you know what, I have no idea what they look like.
I just might replace everything inside there since the price Chip gave me is reasonable. And like Greg said, it's a golden opportunity to have it all brand new while the tractor is split. It's not something I look forward to doing again.

 

[3RRL]

Rob,
Amazing getting it split so quickly. Good job marking everything you took off, plus with all the pictures you should have no trouble getting it back together. Man those fork fingers sure are worn down to nothing. Did you have time to check the condition of the clutch disc's?
Before you take the clutch pack off, maybe a good idea for you to measure for making or purchasing a clutch pilot bearing alignment tool?
As long as you got it apart, perhaps it be a good idea to replace both the Main and PTO clutch disc's?

Larry

Larry, most likely I will replace everything inside there new since I have the opportunity to do it now.
Then again, I still have to check each component out first. If everything looks super good and say it's only the fingers and throw out bearing, I'd save a lot of money re-using those parts if they are still very good. On the other hand, if I do get all new components and these parts are still pretty good, I'd have a spare clutch pack if I needed it in a pinch.
Chip mentioned he uses a tool to align everything. He bought one with several sizes at Napa so I think I'll get one while I'm down here.

 

[greg_g]

I think that bearing is dry.
When I pulled the throw out bearing forward, it moved away very slowly. I was under the impression it would move away from the clutch at the same rate my clutch pedal was moving?

The two are unrelated. A dry bearing only affects the rotational movement. The lateral movement is of the sleeve upon which the bearing is seated.

About the 4wdrive shaft, I was talking about making something that would allow installation or removal of the 4wd shaft when the tractor is already together.

So was my explanation. There's no need to split the tractor, if all you want to do is remove the front driveshaft. The method I described will do that. I know, because I had to remove the one on my KM454 once to do some work on the transfer case.

//greg//

 

[greg_g]

Larry, is setting the fingers all level (even) not part of what Greg said to do on the bench then?
Or they two separate things to do? That is, do what Greg said to do on the bench, then mount the clutch and bolt it to the flywheel to set the finger gaps all even.

Well, my experience with the TS354C clutchpack was completely on the bench, the flywheel stayed on the tractor. I was able to simply push down on the housing so that the Bellevilles pushed the release fingers into place for fine tuning. But That's a six-fingered clutchpack, as opposed to 3 fingers on the KM454/554. The single Belleville on the KAMA clutch is probably stouter than the pair in the TaiShan clutch. If true, I can see where bolting it to the flywheel would distribute more pressure.

I've got one in my workshop that I can put on the bench tomorrow. I'll let you know what I find out.

I got by without an alignment tool by the way. It's not hard if you've got a helper. But let's not cross that bridge till you actually get to the reassembly stage.

And if you don't object to me spending your money, I suggest you buy a whole new clutchpack from Chip - to include TOB and pilot bearings. Given the Chinese economy, they're not likely to get any cheaper in the future. Install the new stuff, throw away the old bearings and fingers. Rebuild the OE clutchpack at your leisure, and keep it on the shelf as a ready spare.

//greg//

 

[greg_g]

I've got one in my workshop that I can put on the bench tomorrow. I'll let you know what I find out.

After I actually (re)assembled the thing correctly, I didn't have any problem adjusting stack height on the bench. There are two Bellevilles after all, that was a brain fart. But whoever put it together before shoving it into the cardboard box must have been asleep at the wheel. The tabs that separate the clutchpack layers were out of sequence. More proof positive that it's dangerous to assume you can install these clutches right outa the box.

Once I got it put back to gether correctly, three springs to adjust for main drive tension. Dead simple. PTO drive adjustment a little more involved, but I see no reason that the thing has to be adjusted on the flywheel. It can be adjusted either way, don't get me wrong. But I much prefer doing this kind of work standing up at a bench - than I do squatting down in front of a flywheel.

//greg//

 

[SPYDERLK]

Larry, is setting the fingers all level (even) not part of what Greg said to do on the bench then?
Or they two separate things to do? That is, do what Greg said to do on the bench, then mount the clutch and bolt it to the flywheel to set the finger gaps all even.

I agree knowing what caused this will prevent future failures.
I'll have to inspect both halves next week and become familiar with exactly how it all should operate, like the TB sliding etc. Then possibly I can figure it out?

The fingers should be even when the pressure plate is pressing on the clutch. The only easy way to do this is to bolt the whole thing onto the flywheel. That way the p plate housing is bolted flat against the fwheel with the pplate pressing on the [sandwiched] clutch plate. Everything is in correct relative position and the fingers take their places accordingly. If not even then you adjust them to be. --- If you just laid the uncompressed p plate on a level bench you would not get an accurate result because the p plate may not be // in its housing when relaxed to the full extended position.

Now, I know nothing specific regarding your tractor clutch and I could be wrong in how it works. But if its the ordinary way, what I described is what I observed when I worked on the JD clutch 30yrs ago. See if you dont perceive the same when its all in front of you.
larry

 

[greg_g]

Now, I know nothing specific regarding your tractor clutch and I could be wrong in how it works.

Therein lies the crux of the problem. I mistakenly assumed you'd actually done this to a KAMA. The stack height adjustment procedure I outlined is what actually distributes tension on the Belleville springs, and at the same time sets the release finger height. They - and the PTO friction disc - are part of the stack height.

//greg//

 

[3RRL]

Brad,
Thanks for the link and photos on the other board.
And explanation of how you got the 4wd axle out. lol ... I remember you had to do something but couldn't remember. ??? I should be able to line it up when re-assembling.

Brad and Greg,
I know now what you're talking about the oil leak on the rear side of the 4wd shaft.
When I first slid that tubular cover to the front, that one seal which is held in the middle box protrusion came forward with it, thus all the oil came with it. If you look closely at the housing in those photos posted earlier, you can see that "O" ringed seal is out of the housing, exposing the "O" ring on it. Not knowing any better at the time, I unscrewed the drain plug right there.
Then I slid it back into the housing and the oil stopped of course.
Maybe I should "punch" it to keep it tighter in that housing?
Rob-

 

[3RRL]

Greg and Larry,
I have a large milling machine table with clamp slots in it and also hardened steel plates I use for fitting, lining up, fastening mold components.
Let me ask you this, if I were to line the clutch plates up concentric and then bolt them down so the the plates are compressed,
1) Could I then set the finger gap even?
2) When setting the clutch gap itself, do I set it under compression or relaxed? I presume when the plates are relaxed, right?
3) What order, clutch gap first ... then fingers?

If that would work that way, I could indicate with a test indicator right on the mill table for flatness, parallelism and concentricity all at the same time.
Would that work good?
5) Do I then take the whole assembly and bolt it onto the flywheel and call it good?
6) No more adjustments when I close the tractor except setting the appropriate free play in the clutch pedal.
Thanks,
Rob-