CNC plasma choice
- Thread starter muddstopper
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I can only comment on the PlasmaCAM. We've had the unit for about 5 months but really only got going on it the last 2 months.
Overall we've grown to like our purchase but i will say it was difficult for the first 2 months. We did have start up and installation issues but we were fortunate to have a local user who was familiar with the machine and TD Cutmaster 52 we purchased. The service/support has been very good.
Here are my thoughts so far.
Build Quality - Very good. I don't get a sense that it's made cheaply or will fall apart in the next 2-3 years
Software Program - Easy (after installation and setup. see Improvements below as to why) to use but i have used AutoCAD and Coreldraw for years so my learning curve was already high and didn't take long at all to adapt to the peculiar's of the program. As i tell everyone.........."if i can draw it, i can cut it."
Biggest Regret - Not buying an extra license seat and the automatic torch height control. 95% of what we've been cutting has been 14 gauge or thinner for metal art. The sheet metal warps due to heat makes monitoring the torch height a constant battle. We raise and lower the torch height manually during the cutting process. I'm sure our consumables would last longer with the automatic height control. Once we make a little money, our first upgrade is the torch height then the extra license seat.
Improvements - I would like if the video manual and tutorial that comes with the installation disc would match the version of the software one purchased. I spent hours and hours watching the features and setup only to find out that those are only available for advance software upgrade and not the basic package.
Overall we've grown to like our purchase but i will say it was difficult for the first 2 months. We did have start up and installation issues but we were fortunate to have a local user who was familiar with the machine and TD Cutmaster 52 we purchased. The service/support has been very good.
Here are my thoughts so far.
Build Quality - Very good. I don't get a sense that it's made cheaply or will fall apart in the next 2-3 years
Software Program - Easy (after installation and setup. see Improvements below as to why) to use but i have used AutoCAD and Coreldraw for years so my learning curve was already high and didn't take long at all to adapt to the peculiar's of the program. As i tell everyone.........."if i can draw it, i can cut it."
Biggest Regret - Not buying an extra license seat and the automatic torch height control. 95% of what we've been cutting has been 14 gauge or thinner for metal art. The sheet metal warps due to heat makes monitoring the torch height a constant battle. We raise and lower the torch height manually during the cutting process. I'm sure our consumables would last longer with the automatic height control. Once we make a little money, our first upgrade is the torch height then the extra license seat.
Improvements - I would like if the video manual and tutorial that comes with the installation disc would match the version of the software one purchased. I spent hours and hours watching the features and setup only to find out that those are only available for advance software upgrade and not the basic package.
jimcolt
Gold Member
The PlasmaCam's used to all come with the full featured height control system....which from my perspective is necessary on all cnc plasma machines.
Since Torchmate and other entry level plasma machine competitors were offering machines without torch height control....and they were less expensive that way...PlasmaCam decided to do the same thing...but a little differently. Now PlasmaCam offers the machine with different levels of software capability.....you can purchase it with no height control capability for less than the Torchmate 4 x 4 machine without height control. By calling PlasmaCam you can upgrade the software (for a price) and you can activate different levels of the height control functionality (all of the hardware for height control is on every machine). Once you buy the PlasmaCam 4 x 4 with full height control functions....it cost more than the base version, but still is quite a bit less expensive than the Torchmate 4 x 4 equipped with their AVHC height control.
What does height control get you on a cnc plasma machine? In terms of performance....you will get superior, repeatable cut quality.....and in terms of operating cost you will enjoy longer plasma torch consumable life, and less secondary grinding and cleanup on the parts you cut (due to the better quality).
The height control:
- Automatically indexes towards and finds the surface of the plate before each cut cycle.
- Retracts the torch to the plasma manufacturers suggested pierce height (different for different thicknesses).
- Fires the torch at the pierce height and satys fixed in place until the pierce is complete.
- As soon as the pierce is complete the torch rapidly indexes down to cut height (as recommended by the torch manufacturer)
- As soon as the cutting motion achieves speed...he height control monitors the plasma torch arc voltage and adjusts the torch to work distance real time (accurate to plus or minus about .005") during the cut to compensate for warpage or unlevel sections of the plate.
- After the cut is complete the height control raises the torch to a home position to allow traversing to the next cut without colliding with tipped up, previously cut parts.
Proper pierce height and time is necessary to maintain the best possible consumable life. Proper cut height controls cut edge angularity and dross formation.....as well as avoiding plate collisions.
So....with a height control you can take advantage of what a cnc machine is all about, the automated cutting of parts. Without a height control you will find you must stay with the machine and babysit every cut.
I have been known to nest over 100 parts on my home shop machine.....and go do something else in my shop....go back to the machine when the parts are all done.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
Since Torchmate and other entry level plasma machine competitors were offering machines without torch height control....and they were less expensive that way...PlasmaCam decided to do the same thing...but a little differently. Now PlasmaCam offers the machine with different levels of software capability.....you can purchase it with no height control capability for less than the Torchmate 4 x 4 machine without height control. By calling PlasmaCam you can upgrade the software (for a price) and you can activate different levels of the height control functionality (all of the hardware for height control is on every machine). Once you buy the PlasmaCam 4 x 4 with full height control functions....it cost more than the base version, but still is quite a bit less expensive than the Torchmate 4 x 4 equipped with their AVHC height control.
What does height control get you on a cnc plasma machine? In terms of performance....you will get superior, repeatable cut quality.....and in terms of operating cost you will enjoy longer plasma torch consumable life, and less secondary grinding and cleanup on the parts you cut (due to the better quality).
The height control:
- Automatically indexes towards and finds the surface of the plate before each cut cycle.
- Retracts the torch to the plasma manufacturers suggested pierce height (different for different thicknesses).
- Fires the torch at the pierce height and satys fixed in place until the pierce is complete.
- As soon as the pierce is complete the torch rapidly indexes down to cut height (as recommended by the torch manufacturer)
- As soon as the cutting motion achieves speed...he height control monitors the plasma torch arc voltage and adjusts the torch to work distance real time (accurate to plus or minus about .005") during the cut to compensate for warpage or unlevel sections of the plate.
- After the cut is complete the height control raises the torch to a home position to allow traversing to the next cut without colliding with tipped up, previously cut parts.
Proper pierce height and time is necessary to maintain the best possible consumable life. Proper cut height controls cut edge angularity and dross formation.....as well as avoiding plate collisions.
So....with a height control you can take advantage of what a cnc machine is all about, the automated cutting of parts. Without a height control you will find you must stay with the machine and babysit every cut.
I have been known to nest over 100 parts on my home shop machine.....and go do something else in my shop....go back to the machine when the parts are all done.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
4shorts
Elite Member
Hey Jim. Is PlazmaCam still using a serial port or have they modernized and went with a USB port? Thanks. Paul
jimcolt
Gold Member
PlasmaCam uses a parallel port. Parallel ports are not used on home PC's any more....but are readily available for many industrial uses. Most PC's have a PCI slot and it is easy to install a $30 parallel port.
Machines that use stepper motor drives can get away with the USB port as an interface because they do not need the quick bi-directional communication that is required by servo drives....like the PlasmaCam. I am not aware of any machines that use servos that communicate between drives and computer with a USB....although correct me if I am wrong!
Stepper drives can easily lose position if there is a tight spot in the motion...or if the torch drags momentarily on the plate...or if the acceleration is set near the motors peak torque speed. Steppers have a very limited speed range where maximum torque is available. Steppers are less expensive.
Servos use encoder feedback (that is one reason for the parallel interface) that ensures position....with no lost steps. Servos also have almost full torque throughout a wide speed range....allowing max acceleration at both low and high speeds....advantageous to plasma cut quality.Servos are more expensive.
So, while I do not see the parallel port as an issue....I suspect PlasmaCam and other companies that use them today will ultimately develop a long term interface using different protocol....perhaps ethernet.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
Machines that use stepper motor drives can get away with the USB port as an interface because they do not need the quick bi-directional communication that is required by servo drives....like the PlasmaCam. I am not aware of any machines that use servos that communicate between drives and computer with a USB....although correct me if I am wrong!
Stepper drives can easily lose position if there is a tight spot in the motion...or if the torch drags momentarily on the plate...or if the acceleration is set near the motors peak torque speed. Steppers have a very limited speed range where maximum torque is available. Steppers are less expensive.
Servos use encoder feedback (that is one reason for the parallel interface) that ensures position....with no lost steps. Servos also have almost full torque throughout a wide speed range....allowing max acceleration at both low and high speeds....advantageous to plasma cut quality.Servos are more expensive.
So, while I do not see the parallel port as an issue....I suspect PlasmaCam and other companies that use them today will ultimately develop a long term interface using different protocol....perhaps ethernet.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
jimgerken
Veteran Member
Servos with gearboxes will give greatly improved cut surfaces on diagonal cuts (cuts involving movement of both X and Y axis at once). Steppers don't have to use gearboxes so they sort of ratchet along one step at a time. Servos are smoother at low speed.
I built a plasma table in 2004 or so. Had a few initial problems getting everything sheilded properly, got a lot of good advice on this very TBN site, expecially from Jim Colt himself. The machine is still working perfectly. It's built with medium sized steppers. The motors are very cheap to buy ($25 or so).
Once you have a plasma table you will then immediately start looking for a press brake.
Don't be afraid to get into a 4x4 table just because of available material sizes. Think it through: You are going to haul home 4x8 sheets of stock -- then what? You can't lift them. And you won't want to handle a 4x8 sheet to the table to make a shelf bracket or two. So when I come home with material I right away make 4x4 pcs out of it. Easier to store, sort, handle. Even if you really did want to handle 4x8 sheets, how about adding an extension support table on the side of the 4x4 cutting table?
I built a plasma table in 2004 or so. Had a few initial problems getting everything sheilded properly, got a lot of good advice on this very TBN site, expecially from Jim Colt himself. The machine is still working perfectly. It's built with medium sized steppers. The motors are very cheap to buy ($25 or so).
Once you have a plasma table you will then immediately start looking for a press brake.
Don't be afraid to get into a 4x4 table just because of available material sizes. Think it through: You are going to haul home 4x8 sheets of stock -- then what? You can't lift them. And you won't want to handle a 4x8 sheet to the table to make a shelf bracket or two. So when I come home with material I right away make 4x4 pcs out of it. Easier to store, sort, handle. Even if you really did want to handle 4x8 sheets, how about adding an extension support table on the side of the 4x4 cutting table?
OP
muddstopper
Veteran Member
I am still keeping track of this thread. I really do appreciate all the responses.
Jim, did you get my email? I have been watching the webinars on the torchmate site trying to learn a little something about what I might be getting myself into.
Plasmacam is still looking for somebody close to me that will let me visit and check out their machine. I am having a very hard time pulling the trigger on something that expensive without at least seeing in person how it works. I am 100miles from Atlanta ga, Chattanooga tn, Knoxville tn, Asheville nc, and Greenville Sc if there is anybody in those areas that wouldnt mine letting me have a look at their machine.
For anybody that is interested in the Plasmacam, I was just informed that they have started doing inhouse finaceing with one day credit approval and same or next day shipping. Since the cost is still a little more than I anticipated, I might be going that route when/if I do decide to buy one of their machines.
One question that I keep forgetting to ask. I have a Miller Spectrum 625, 40amp plasma cutter. Rated for 5/8 I believe. What thickness of metal could I expect to pierce and cut, using the hand torch, with a cnc plasma table? Most of my work would probably be 1/4in and less with the occasional 1/2in piece every now and then. Also, would I be able to use this same plasma machine with a machine torch and cut thicker metals or would this reduce the thickness of material to be cut?. With my hand torch, I can cut 3/4 pretty well and have cut 1inch, but have a problem with dross and the cut flowing back together. 1/2in it will slice like butter, but I usually am starting at the edge of the metal to make my cuts. I will probably upsize my torch in the future, but for now it will have to make do.
Jim, did you get my email? I have been watching the webinars on the torchmate site trying to learn a little something about what I might be getting myself into.
Plasmacam is still looking for somebody close to me that will let me visit and check out their machine. I am having a very hard time pulling the trigger on something that expensive without at least seeing in person how it works. I am 100miles from Atlanta ga, Chattanooga tn, Knoxville tn, Asheville nc, and Greenville Sc if there is anybody in those areas that wouldnt mine letting me have a look at their machine.
For anybody that is interested in the Plasmacam, I was just informed that they have started doing inhouse finaceing with one day credit approval and same or next day shipping. Since the cost is still a little more than I anticipated, I might be going that route when/if I do decide to buy one of their machines.
One question that I keep forgetting to ask. I have a Miller Spectrum 625, 40amp plasma cutter. Rated for 5/8 I believe. What thickness of metal could I expect to pierce and cut, using the hand torch, with a cnc plasma table? Most of my work would probably be 1/4in and less with the occasional 1/2in piece every now and then. Also, would I be able to use this same plasma machine with a machine torch and cut thicker metals or would this reduce the thickness of material to be cut?. With my hand torch, I can cut 3/4 pretty well and have cut 1inch, but have a problem with dross and the cut flowing back together. 1/2in it will slice like butter, but I usually am starting at the edge of the metal to make my cuts. I will probably upsize my torch in the future, but for now it will have to make do.
OP
muddstopper
Veteran Member
HA!HA!. I am already looking for a pressbrake and dont even have a table yet. I was sort of thinking that once I had the table, i could cut out the pieces I needed to build the brake. Plus a bandsaw mill and a log lathe, and a firewood processor, and, and, and. LOL! I have a ton of personal projects I will be practiceing on until I figure the machine out.
I also had aready considered adding a table extention to which ever machine I bought. If for nothing else, I could then use the plasma table to cut the larger sheets in half for handleing. I hate fireing up the Oxy torch with the cost of gas. I would probably put rollers on the table extention to make it easier to slide the thinner metals onto the cutting table. For the heavier stuff I would use a shop crane.
jimgerken
Veteran Member
I was told to de-rate by half for operation with NC. Said another way, if a machine will cut 1/2" with a handheld torch, consider 1/4" to be the thickest practical gauge if the NC table is controlling the torch. I will say one thing, the machine is relentless. If something goes wrong, like it didn't quite pierce all the way through, or the blowback from the pierce is intense and destroying the sheild cup, the computer happily keeps right on executing the program. Even if the workpeice and torch are taking a beating, and the cut quality is terrible due to too slow/fast of travel, too thick, etc, it just keeps going. No real intelligence.
jimcolt
Gold Member
With a hand held torch you can easily tip the torch at an angle...or start on an edge to pierce. When the torch is held in a machine...it is perpendicular to the plate.....so the pierce blow-back can easily damage the consumables on thicker materials. That is one reason why air plasma torches are rated for thinner materials when machine cutting as compared to hand cutting.
The other reason that cutting thickness is downgraded for mechanized torches is that cutting all day long with no breaks is doable by a machine.....but humans generally stop working quite often....even just for a minute or two. On a machine it is easy to exceed the duty cycle rating....and by hand it is difficult.
The Hypertherm air plasma systems all have one rating for hand cutting, and another (usually about 1/2 the hand cutting thickness) for machine cutting. Hypertherm does have a whole line of industrial plasma systems that are not available with hand torches that are rated for 100% duty cycle industrial applications.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
The other reason that cutting thickness is downgraded for mechanized torches is that cutting all day long with no breaks is doable by a machine.....but humans generally stop working quite often....even just for a minute or two. On a machine it is easy to exceed the duty cycle rating....and by hand it is difficult.
The Hypertherm air plasma systems all have one rating for hand cutting, and another (usually about 1/2 the hand cutting thickness) for machine cutting. Hypertherm does have a whole line of industrial plasma systems that are not available with hand torches that are rated for 100% duty cycle industrial applications.
Jim Colt Hypertherm
OP
muddstopper
Veteran Member
Sounds like as long as I dont go over 1/4 to 3/8 My cutter will do the job. If I purchase a plasma table, I can see a upgrade for the plasma cutter in the near future. I'll definatatly be looking at the Hypertherm machines. How big a machine (amps) do I need to be looking at to cut 1in thick steel.
PlasmaCam just called me a little while ago and has located a couple of machines not to far from me, but it will probably be monday before he can contact the owners. I am looking forward to getting to see one of their machine work by a actual owner and not just videos made by people that are trined specificly on their machines.
PlasmaCam just called me a little while ago and has located a couple of machines not to far from me, but it will probably be monday before he can contact the owners. I am looking forward to getting to see one of their machine work by a actual owner and not just videos made by people that are trined specificly on their machines.
jimcolt
Gold Member
You can edge start and cut 1" fairly productively with a Hypertherm Powermax85, however the maximum pierce thickness is 3/4". If you need to pierce 1" plate you will need about a 130 amp plasma system.....which gets you into industrial class plasma systems such as the Hypertherm HSD130.
Jim Colt
Jim Colt
tlbuser
Veteran Member
This has been on my to-do list for awhile, my yard, always last. This pic. isn't final look.
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sparc
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- NJ
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- JD 4410, NH TC-25, Bobcat M610, JD X534, Dig-It Model 158, JD Ztrak 737. 6X4 Gator
Just happened upon this this thread and the capability of being able to convert over the a router is something I would want. Not sure who mentioned it, maybe Jim Colt, that for ~1k you could get the router option and software upgrade. I was thinking about a Torchmate but after reading this thread am leaning toward a machine with servos like the Torchmate. I have a small plasma cutter now (Tomahawk 375) that would have to serve for a while until I could upgrade. I'm sure that will limit my capabilities to start out but I can see about half my time being set up to use a router for woodworking projects. I just figure if I'm gonna dump this much money into amachine of this type for my home shop I want to be able to cut both metal and wood, so if anyone can add their thoughts on why this is a good or bad move would be appreciated. If a dual use machine is not the answer then I would go with something designed for working wood, plastic, etc for now.
Shield Arc
Super Member
Only thing I can suggest is to go with a unit that is designed for use with a router! And make sure the gantry is very stout! And has a motor at each end of the gantry! Remember a plasma torch only touches the material to find it, then backs off to a predetermined Z-height. Where as a router plunges, and whittles it's way through the material. I can only imagine the stresses that are applied to the gantry on a router unit.
sparc
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2011
- Messages
- 1,079
- Location
- NJ
- Tractor
- JD 4410, NH TC-25, Bobcat M610, JD X534, Dig-It Model 158, JD Ztrak 737. 6X4 Gator
I see that Torchmate makes a unit they call Routermate which can hang a router, a drill, and a plasma torchat the same time. It has greater Z axis travel and is available with steppers or servo motors. I'm scared to know what this lists for but I'm interested. Torchmates' site now says free lifetime tech support and a 3 year warranty IIRC.
My plasma is less than a year old and barely used, i think i would sell it and move up to a 625, or maybe a 1000.
My plasma is less than a year old and barely used, i think i would sell it and move up to a 625, or maybe a 1000.
Shield Arc
Super Member
I bought my plasma cutter about 11 or 12-years ago, so I'm a little out of touch on what is on the market. On my cnc table I always use the expanded metal option on the plasma. And I just love the scarfing option! I have a carbon arc torch, but hardly ever use it, the plasma is so much nicer to use! :thumbsup:
