Comparing 5325 mfwd to TYM/Montana/Mahindra

[jwcinpk]

Looking within the next year to upgrade to a cab tractor in the 70hp range. I run a Vermeer rebel roller and plan to be doing some custom haying, fertilizer spreading, and general work around our 170 acres. I will want a FEL and must have mfwd. Got quotes of $36000 and $37000 on the Mahindra and Montana. As I configure the deere without a loader I get $46000, if the FEL is another $4000 that puts me to $50000. Considering at best a 18% discount my price would be $41000.
The TYM/Montana use a deere engine coupled with a 16x16 tranny. The Mahindra also use the 16x16 tranny with their 72 hp?? 7520 engine. The tranny choices on the deere are 9x, 12x, and 24x. The 24x would add another $500 to $1000. Weight is close to 6300 lbs for both. I lose about 5 pto hp on the deere.
Deere does not give a 3pt lift capacity. The Mahindra/TYM/Montana is around 4300 lbs. I cannot find a wheelbase on the Mahindra/TYM/Montana nor a overall length on the deere. However looking at the 2 tractors they seem very close to the same in size.
I currently use a Mahindra 6000 4x4 (with good, not excellent but good, results) and it does all I need to do so I can't justify any bigger tractor than it would take to maintain around 60 pto hp with the air on.
Are there any other facts I am overlooking? Can anyone provide the 3pt lift capacity?
As of now the only plus I can see by going with the deere is a 24x tranny, and I believe the 16x or even the 12x would suit my needs.

 

[bam747]

According to the JD Ag page info for the 5025 series, the 3PH capacity is rated at 3374 lbs @ 24" behind the lift balls for ALL tractors. Be sure other tractors you are comparing are also listing the more realistic 24" behind the lift balls number.

Note that when looking for detailed information on the 5025 series of tractors, be sure to start with Deere's Ag web page to get to the 5025 series tractor info: 5025 Series Detailed Info

For reasons that do not make sense to me, if you start with Deere's residential or commercial web pages and follow the links to the 5025 series tractor pages, you get far, far less information than if you start from the Ag pages.

If you start from Deere's Ag pages, they have a large amount of info available on the 5025 (and other) series tractors, many times complete with product photos. Be aware that to get at that information, you'll need to follow a lot of links that pop up secondary windows with the detailed information and pictures. Also, assuming you haven't done it already, go ahead and request product literature on the 5025 series tractors right from the Ag web pages. Deere will happily send the 5025 series brochure directly to you.

After reading your post, I am confused as to just how much HP you are looking for. Are you using consistent engine or PTO HP ratings? At one point you say you want to maintain 60 PTO HP with the AC on. The 5325 is only rated at 55 PTO HP. The 5425 is rated at 65 PTO HP and the 5525 is rated at 75 PTO HP. I do not believe any of those numbers make any allowance for running with the AC on.

I also wanted to point out that the 5225 and 5325 have the same hydraulic flow rates of 5.9 gpm steering, 13.5 gpm implement, and 19.4 gpm total. The 5425 and 5525 step up to 6.6 gpm steering, 18.4 gpm implement, and 25 gpm total. If you are looking for a better FEL tractor, stepping up to a 5425 or 5525 makes a large difference in hydraulic flow rates.

 

[bam747]

Some additional links to more information on the 5025 series:

Stoneham's 5025 Series Info (HTML)

Stoneham's 5025 Series Info (PDF)

These links are to the Stoneham's web site. They have gone to the trouble of consolidating much, if not all, of Deere's web site info plus additional data into a single HTML page or a PDF file on the 5025 series.

 

[jwcinpk]

I was comparing comparable size tractors more than anything. The 5425 is a little more tractor, but may well be more what I'm looking for. Really I wanted to stay as small as I could considering I only roll 4x4 rolls and the geography here in SE Ky. The rebel baler is supposed to be able to roll with 40hp. Im doing it now with 59hp and no problems (50 pto), but that doesn't allow for running the air. Weight will be close to the same.
What I'm really looking for is why I should spend the atleast $5000 more for the deere.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( What I'm really looking for is why I should spend the atleast $5000 more for the deere.

American by birth, Union by choice!
Proud to be a union laborer!
)</font>

I can think of one reason.

 

[jwcinpk]

Surely you aren't telling me that the 25 series is made in the usa or that they are a union company?!?!?

 

[Turkflyer]

The 25 Series is assembled in the Augusta, GA factory. Stop by some time and see. The Montana is an LG (Lucky Gold Star) tractor made in S. Korea, and uncrated in Springdale, AR by JB Hunt trucking company. TYM (Tong Yang Molson) is another Korean tractor. I just left Deere, and at that time TYM could only use the Deere engine in tractors that stayed in Korea, not in tractors that come here. I'll have to look at the Montana to see whose engine is in that one. I'm not sure the product support will be there for those tractors. I know Deere's support will be there. When you're finsihed with the tractors, you'll more than get your $5000 back in resale.

 

[jwcinpk]

That certainly makes it a different ballgame. I was under the impression that all their tractors were assembled overseas now? I knew they had some ties with the UAW in distribution, etc..
As for the TYM/Montana/Mahindra, I more than likely would go with the Mahindra. However Montana and TYM are advertising use of the deere engine here in the US. I'v e found a good Mahindra dealer and believe the support is there.
I would really like to support an american company and a union company if I can afford to.

 

[Turkflyer]

I just took early retirement from Deere. My last assignment was Export Manager, John Deere India. I went there in 2001 to set up Deere tractors to compete worldwide against Mahindra and others. You're right, the dealer makes all the difference. Some Mahindras are made in India, some they buy from TYM (lower hp) for the U.S. market. Mahindras are an older design than Deere, but not too bad. Better than some of the Chinese and Central European tractors. Augusta GA is a union factory.

 

[bam747]

Justifying the higher cost of the Deere is something hard to quantify. There is initial cost, perceived value, quality, resale value, longevity, and, most importantly, support and service.

All I can give you is my personal experience with one John Deere tractor. I still have the 1973 John Deere 1020 utility tractor with FEL my Dad bought. It has lead a relatively sheltered life with only 2750 original hours on it, but it has had zero major repairs. Sure, there have been lots of little things over the years like starters, mufflers, batteries, etc. But those things would need replacement on anything over 30 years old.

A couple years ago I did have to take it to a dealer for what I thought might be a hydraulic pump replacement, which would have been expensive. Turns out, the problem was caused by a worn coupler between the front of the engine and the pump. The total repair bill was around $200.

My point is that even though the tractor is 33 years old, there are still parts and supplies available for it from John Deere. I even did some minor refurbishing a couple years ago and was able to buy new transmission shift pattern decals and rubber shift lever boots with no problem at all.

I guess one major reason to pay a premium for a John Deere tractor is that you'll more than likely be able to get parts for it 30+ years from now. There are no guarantees on company longevity these days, but John Deere has been around for a very long time and I don't see them going under or being bought out any time soon.

Me, I'd have no problem justifying the extra cost of a 5025 series with their fantastic cab, especially considering your main desire to get a cab tractor. But that's me. And, by the way, I'd also go right for the the 5525. No doubt. I'd much rather have that extra PTO HP available and not use it than save a few thousand dollars in initial cost and end up being short on power later. The size difference between the 5225/5325 and 5425/5525 is not enough to worry about in my opinion. I'd say you'd have to jump up a whole class of tractor, to the 6020 series, for there to be a significant size difference.

 

[ddivinia]

I had the same debates. The extra money seems worth it for the JD. I have a 5525 cab 4wd and love it. I have the 12 speed trans and sometimes think it would be nice to have the 24, but very rarely. The 5425 is physically bigger, you migth want to consider it from the weight and footprint perspective.

D.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Well, I thought a Pro Union buyer would prefer a nice Deere...

Now, there can easily be $5000 advantage in a nice cab model over a discount one. Things like operator isolation to keep from being rattled to death, climate control, doors that hold up to abuse... I think that it would be really inportant to really try out a model before deciding that the cheaper one was 'just the same'

Of course, the Deere will reflect their industry leading R&D, as well./

But more importantly, it sounds to me that you have a quoted price on the others and a configurator price on the Deere. I think that at this point you need to get real numbers from dealers. It is pretty easy to overlook something that could add (or save) thousands on a machine like this. And there are other factors that could affect the discount.

You might be well served to get a quote from HD Equipment in London, Ohio. At least to guage how a local dealer stacks up to the price. But don't gnaw your foot off to save a little, and lose out on the extra service that a good selling dealer can offer. While you never have trouble getting a reasonable level of service from a dealer no matter where you bought; you also can;t expect the kind of miracles that good selling dealers can pull off when things really can get in a bind

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Hey, Turkflyer thanks for hangin' out with us. nice to have your perspective. Even if it is from Ar - um- Arkan - um. Do you folks really have pig for a football mascot?!!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Turkflyer]

Yes, and it tastes GREAT barbequed! My family is actually from some Indian state just west of here.....the "Laters"...or maybe the "Sooners"? Dad is from Oohlagah, and I'll be in Tulsa this weekend on some other trivial persuits. I "Feel the need for speed", so will be in Hallett. Have a great one!

 

[Maka]

Hello Turkflyer. I would just like to point out a slight error in your post. JB Hunt Trucking has nothing to do with Montana. JB Hunt Trucking is a trucking company that I believe is publically traded and the only thing they have to do with tractors is tractor trailers.

Mr. Hunt is the founder.

Montana tractors is Montana tractors and one of the primary owners is JB Hunt. He in fact has started something like 36 companies over the years I believe is what he told me. I don't recall how many but he is a sharp business man who really knows how to make a company successful and grow.

I just want to point this out so that people realize that Hunt Trucking is not part of Montana. I may be wrong but I don't think so.

Thanks,
Maka

 

[Turkflyer]

I agree. Mr. Hunt is quite a man and knows business. I have just moved here from overseas (Asia) where I worked in this business and know the competitors well. I believe Mr. Hunt's group is the importer of the basic tractor. If I remember correctly, the design and manufacturing all all in S. Korea, not Arkansas. It is quite a job and takes quite an organization to set up a sales and distribution system for tractors. Support and parts are also a big job. Long term committment is yet another. The Montana is one of the better imports from Asia. John Deere also has many companies, but most are synergistic with their core competency in Agriculture. I wish Mr. Hunt all the best and hope he's successful.

 

[cowboydoc]

You've met your match in knowledge Maka. Turkflyer knows what's going on and who's doing what. His knowledge on the board has been without bias and 100% factual.

As far as the 25 series the cab alone I think is worth the extra $5k. Go sit and ride in the new Deere cab and then go ride in the competitors. The Deere cab is like a cadillac and the others are like a Chevy. If you don't care about much more than ac and radio then you're fine. If you want the extras then go with the Deere.

You will find also that your pump capacities, pto to the ground hp, and longevity will be much better. You know where Deere will be in the next 10 years. It's hard to say with the other companies. The smaller companies get bought up and integrated very often in this business. If you're looking for short-term costs then think foreign tractors. If you're thinking a 20 year tractor investment then think Deere. The extra $5k will pay for itself in spades over the years.

If you want to compare a tractor to the ones you mentioned look at the 6003 series from Deere. They are more of an economy minded tractor like the others you are looking at. The 25 series is top of the line. The 6403 is an 85 PTO hp tractor that you will never run out of power on doing what you are doing. It will be alot cheaper than a comparable 5525 that is only 75 PTO hp.

 

[Maka]

Hi Cowboydoc. Not trying to match wits here. In fact I did not even question his tractor knowledge except the Hunt Trucking, Montana statement. Turkflyer seems to be very knowleagable and an overall asset to TBN.

I just wanted to correct that one point as it is important.

Thanks, Maka

 

[Maka]

Thanks Turkflyer. I hope I was not coming off in anyway other than intended. That intention was to make sure that Hunt Trucking was not seen as Montana.

Thanks Much,
Maka

 

[Turkflyer]

Hey, no problem. I didn't mean to get after you as well. You had a good point. After a decade of setting these businesses up, I'm getting close to understanding them. I usually relate this to the passion we have for tractors...we eat, sleep, and breathe tractors. I know....I'm not the "life of the party circuit".....probably boring to most. If you're going to buy a loaf of bread, buy it from a guy who loves to make bread, and wants to get up evey day at 3am to start the process. he has a passion. You'll get a much better product that way. Also, you usually get better pizza from a dedicated pizza parlor than a gas station, because the gas station has other things to distract it.

Being a tractor distributor (Like Mr. Hunt) is tough business, especially as you set up a new market. The parent company has no direct ties to you, and there may be questions on warranty payment and support. Also, if the tractor was designed for another market, it may have shortcomings in another market. Years ago, we thought we'd just send China some of our tractors designed for the U.S. Turns out they couldn't use them properly, or support them. It fell on it's knees. Then we figured out that each country needs (and will buy) a tractor that is designed for that country and it's unique needs. That's when I picked up and moved overseas, learned the language, lived with locals, and did my best to give them a tractor that THEY needed....not just one I had on the shelf. Customer Satisfaction is easy....1) Find out what they want, and 2) Give it to them. You can't go wrong. I'm passionate about my tractors. Sorry to bore you with all of this, and keep up the good questions. That is what makes this forum alive.