Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports

   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #51  
I'm proud to be an American. Are you???

Not especially these days. And its for reasons you've said yourself, that the politicians have sold us out. To line their own pockets and those of their friends and "special interest groups"... They don't tax foreign made products like they ought to and it does give Chinese/Mexican/Russian/Mongolian/Zimbabwean/Italian/Australian/Phillipine/Indian/Etc... an unfair advantage. In addition by the tax shelters and inexpensive wages and other reasons companies are moving or outsourcing to foreign countries and we continue to lose many skilled and good paying jobs here in the USA.

The first and foremost goal any politician that I will ever support should have is to make it his and his parties personal mission to pass any law, tax and fine necessary to bring manufacturing back to the USA. We've become a nation that is primarily supported by the entertainment business. Movies, TV, Music, Sports, and all the advertisements that followed behind. Our economy is currently built on meaningless and momentary entertainment while we should be based on solid tangible goods that will hold value and be valued by anyone who may need that product. Entertainment is not a "need" it is a "want" and our culture is a selfish one that I cannot respect right now.

I am not proud to be an American. But I want to be. I hope to be proud again but we are a long way off right now. Semper Fi!
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #52  
Limiting our choices, rather than our government's size, ain't road to pride in the country.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports
  • Thread Starter
#53  
At the risk of being accused of advertising.....

US Companies can compete very well on the world market while paying adequate wages to US employees.....and that includes manufacturing products here and selling them all over the world. The key is with being lean and efficient....and having the upper management and the production employees all working under the same sets of rules in regards to compensation. It is not the government that limits many companies from competing in world markets.....it usually is the greed of the major shareholders and management that forces US companies to farm their work to other locations.

As I have stated....I think quality products can be built anywhere, and they are. To do it in the US requires attention to a lot of detail...and company structure that is honest and lean.

I know many companies that have changed their structure....follow the above principals, manufacture their products in the USA....and are very profitable and experience abnormal growth. These companies build great products, support them well, and treat their employees well....the key to their success is the realization that customers and employees are their most valuable assets.

The company I work for is certainly very aware of competitive products from around the world....in fact we buy them and run them through all of the same reliability test procedures that we do our own. Occasionally we will find products that have processes or features that work as well or better than ours....trust me...that is what drives excellence. Over 65% of my companies products are exported...

Jim Colt
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #54  
Jim : Great last post !!:thumbsup: You have in just a few words explained what companies are up against in today's economy . I in No Way meant to slight you and as such I Apologize if I did . My original post was more about how anyone may express their opinion but in reality , that is really all it is , their opinion . No first hand knowledge of product "A" having not owned or even used it . Like me going to the J.D. forum and expressing opinions there when in fact I own a New Holland , ( My brother does have a J.D. though , and seriously I do think his tractor is built more solid than mine for a 30 h.p. class although mine is 8 years older ) .

One can complain about companies outsourcing or moving else were , etc.... , but in reality , We are our own worse enemy . Why ?? We as a Society are putting ourselves out of business . Not politician's , US . From business regulations , to Equipment regulations , to Environmental regulations , all usually voted on by the people then on the other hand raising cane because our investments are not making enough money . The " not in my backyard " syndrome is one of many mentalities that are hurting this country .

Take Care ,

Fred H.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports
  • Thread Starter
#55  
I have bought a few harbor freight tools over the years.....as I needed a tool for a specific job and could not justify the price of the expensive version. Sometimes the low cost tool worked adequately and got me through the job....at other times it was in the trash before the windings cooled down (thinking of a $19.95 free shipping hammer drill). When I was younger and wanted to build my home shop.....I bought some cheap tools (wanted the good ones but my wife reminded me that the kids needed things as well!)....eventually I learned that the used market had a lot of great tools in good shape at reasonable prices. Wish there had been Craiglist 35 years ago!

People buy based on value.....however the definition of value is in the eye of the beholder. Value to some is a low price, to others it is the color and brand, to others it would be varoius performance capability, and to others it can be long term reliability and operating cost. If you want a plasma or a welder and you cannot justify the expensive one....then the value proposition shifts to the low cost side. Nothing wrong with that.....as long as you are happy with the machines ability to do what it does.

Where the wrench always is thrown in the works is when the sales person for the lowest cost plasma system makes claims in regards to performance, reliability, operating cost....essentially stating that there is little or no difference between the expensive units and the low cost units.

Kind of like the sales guy that says his 1/2 ton truck will plow snow and haul a 4 horse trailer as well as any 3/4 ton. There is a difference....but it is kind of a "he said, she said" game! If you take a look at the fine print before buying...get a copy of the products owners manual.....look at the technical specs....you will start to see there are differences between low cost products and high priced..but the only way to really tell is to try them out....sometimes for a while.

Anyway....enough rambling! FredH......I have been in a couple of Freightliner plants over the years. Hypertherm plasma systems have been cutting many oftheir parts for over 30 years!


Jim Colt



Jim : Great last post !!:thumbsup: You have in just a few words explained what companies are up against in today's economy . I in No Way meant to slight you and as such I Apologize if I did . My original post was more about how anyone may express their opinion but in reality , that is really all it is , their opinion . No first hand knowledge of product "A" having not owned or even used it . Like me going to the J.D. forum and expressing opinions there when in fact I own a New Holland , ( My brother does have a J.D. though , and seriously I do think his tractor is built more solid than mine for a 30 h.p. class although mine is 8 years older ) .

One can complain about companies outsourcing or moving else were , etc.... , but in reality , We are our own worse enemy . Why ?? We as a Society are putting ourselves out of business . Not politician's , US . From business regulations , to Equipment regulations , to Environmental regulations , all usually voted on by the people then on the other hand raising cane because our investments are not making enough money . The " not in my backyard " syndrome is one of many mentalities that are hurting this country .

Take Care ,

Fred H.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #56  
OMG!!!! Your hysterical 5030 . Nothing in your last post is worth replying to .:confused2:

In Fact your last post just verifies my first post .:thumbsup:

Fred H.

P.S. 5030 : READ my post above about people's opinion on any product even though they don't own it or have never even used it !

Well, I've owned them (Freightliner, 4 to be exact) and used them and now I prefer the higher quality derivitave... Western Star.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #57  
No Comment about Western Star trucks , never owned or drove one so again my opinion is nil , ( as I have stated several times about products I don't own or have operated ) .

Although , they are still owned by Daimler ! :thumbsup:

Fred H.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #58  
Not especially these days. And its for reasons you've said yourself, that the politicians have sold us out. To line their own pockets and those of their friends and "special interest groups"... They don't tax foreign made products like they ought to and it does give Chinese/Mexican/Russian/Mongolian/Zimbabwean/Italian/Australian/Phillipine/Indian/Etc... an unfair advantage. In addition by the tax shelters and inexpensive wages and other reasons companies are moving or outsourcing to foreign countries and we continue to lose many skilled and good paying jobs here in the USA.

The first and foremost goal any politician that I will ever support should have is to make it his and his parties personal mission to pass any law, tax and fine necessary to bring manufacturing back to the USA. We've become a nation that is primarily supported by the entertainment business. Movies, TV, Music, Sports, and all the advertisements that followed behind. Our economy is currently built on meaningless and momentary entertainment while we should be based on solid tangible goods that will hold value and be valued by anyone who may need that product. Entertainment is not a "need" it is a "want" and our culture is a selfish one that I cannot respect right now.

I am not proud to be an American. But I want to be. I hope to be proud again but we are a long way off right now. Semper Fi!

This is still the best place to live and conduct business in, in the world today (IMO) and the 'American Dream' is very much alive and well despite what political hacks want you to believe. We still have a manufacturing base, though not as robust as it once was, it's still there and despite the economy is growing. I think that despite the hurdles placed on indusrty by the government in this country, it will continue to survive and grow because as Americans, we are resourceful.

I certainly agree that a service economy is a non-economy because to service the world economy means we have to lower ourselves to the lowest living standard of any country we service and I don't see that happening because people in this country aren't going to ride bicycles (instead of cars), eat rice (instead of steak) or be content with making a wage comensurate with the Chinese or any third world producer of hard goods.

When I look at imported from third world machines (like welders and plasma cutters) I see machines produced by a workforce making pennies a day and living in conditions that no gainfully employed American would even consider to be acceptable, and those machines, while selling for less than the domestic counterparts, actually cost much less to produce. In conclusion, I see someone making a very large profit selling imported goods here. That brings me right around to the end game, actually imposing trade restrictions and tarriff's on imported goods and adopting a trade policy that puts imported goods on an equal footing with domestic counterparts.

I realize this forum, as a whole, is about small tractors, the majority of which are imported and again those units should also be trade regulated. However, Kubota and other import brands actually have a physical prescence here, with R&D, manufacturing and employment of Americans. I don't see that with the import welding and plasma machines other than maybe a desk, phone and FAX machine. That isn't employment of the American work force. All it is is fat cat brokering of cheap import goods and making a fat profit.

Until the citizens of this country get over the 'cheaper is better' philosophy, nothing will change, except the living standard here as we digress toward being in line with the very third world countries that sell us the crap in the first place.

So, no, when faced with a purchase, any purchase for that matter, I will buy domestic if at all possible or assembled here from parts sourced worldwide because we do live in a world economy and some items are no longer produced here. I will not buy an item based solely on price versus orign.

I buy items at Harbor Fright, I admit that. 99% of the time, the items I buy are either no longer produced here or if thay are, are priced out of what I consider to be fair, however, that don't mean I'll buy on the cheap for the sake of saving a buck. I certainly don't want or need a 12 dollar drill that goes up in smoke with the first use, thats not productive at all. Gimme a DeWalt or Miluakee any day.:)
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #59  
US Companies can compete very well on the world market while paying adequate wages to US employees.....and that includes manufacturing products here and selling them all over the world. The key is with being lean and efficient....and having the upper management and the production employees all working under the same sets of rules in regards to compensation. It is not the government that limits many companies from competing in world markets.....it usually is the greed of the major shareholders and management that forces US companies to farm their work to other locations.

As I have stated....I think quality products can be built anywhere, and they are. To do it in the US requires attention to a lot of detail...and company structure that is honest and lean.

Yes. Greedy business owners are the root of it. They "donate" and fund the special interest groups that lines the pockets of crooked politicians or influence politicians one way or another. The politicians in turn vote favorably for these big businesses. Blocking tariffs on the imports that the businesses are manufacturing overseas and keeping legislation from hurting his bottom line any and every way they can think of.

Yes government regulations hurt business. More so the small and medium sized businesses that are not flexible enough to work with new regulations or rich enough to buy their way around it.

Yes some small business are able to run lean enough or have the corner on a niche market and are able to thrive in some cases but it is ten times harder for manufacturing companies that are competing with products made with cheap labor overseas. Thrifty spending and automated processes only get you so far.

Yes the people are to blame in part. We have allowed the corruption to exist and have not done enough to cut it out at the heart. Unfortunately with it spread throughout the government the way it is now it will be very difficult to surgically remove. Everyone up there is in the big game of milking the country for all its worth and when one or two new kids show up on the block intending to clean town they are blocked, shut down, or are bribed or coerced so they don't make waves or aren't effective.

The government needs a massive change and it needs to be made such that big business and special interest groups are neutralized and ineffective at influencing how the government is run and which policies and regulations are passed.

With the level of communication now available through the internet the senate and house are not needed any longer. Americans have more than enough access to research a situation and vote on it individually on the internet instead of paying corrupt politicians to go to DC to represent them poorly. If every American directly had their own vote then it would be that much harder for big business and special interest groups to control the vote. The voting system would have to be open source and transparent enough that it couldn't be corrupted but I think it could be done.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #60  
5030 : As I stated to Jim , not digging at him or you . If that is the impression I gave in first post , I am Sorry . As I stated earlier , Have never owned a Peterbilt or Kenworth truck . Why ? Has nothing to do with the Brand , rather it dates back to encounters with both local shops for those brands when I was working local and when I was with our Fire Department . Thus knowing the support or lack there of here locally , I avoid those brands .

I wrote sometime back about returning a 1/2" drive ratchet to Sears and also to Harbor Freight . Lets just say the H.F. experience was much more pleasurable and a lot less time consuming .

Everyone's lives are full of experience's , I just limit my opinion's here to my " own " actual experiences , not hearsay or a Friend of a friend of my brother-in-laws . I don't assume anything about any products anymore , what works for me may not work for 100 other members here . For the amount of space I have in my shop , the amount of time that I would actually use a plasma cutter through out the next " x " years , For me it was about utilizing my dollar in the most efficient way . Again , No disrespect to Jim or Mark or anyone .

Take care ,
Fred H.
 

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