Computers are A Devolutionary Scam

glennmac · Jan 28, 2002

There is something far more useless and frustrating than a teenager or a boxblade--modern computers. I am not being sarcastic when I say this: computers have gone backwards in throughput function for the average user...... I returned to Macs after 5 years working on PCs provided by my employer. Researched for two months. Spent almost $4000 on "state of the art" hardware and software. Result: everything is slower than my 6 year old Mac. What a ripoff! All I do is word processing, powerpoint and surfing. On the bible: my 6 year old Mac with Wordperfect is far faster in execution than Word X on Mac OS X, all brand new programs. The lags and delays are shameful.....Why is this? I believe it is because software has become an aburd exercise in bloatware. I had to download a new driver for my new HP inkjet printer. 28 megabytes! 28 megs for a lousy (and I mean lousy) printer driver. My first computer didnt even have 28 megs of hard drive--and it handled printers and word processing just fine. To run Word on OSX, they recommend 256 megs of RAM. 256 megs for a lousy word processing program. My old 6100 didnt even have that much disk and it runs Wordperfect, a superior word processor, faster......I could spend the rest of my life exploring the features of Office, and never understand half of them and never have any use for 90% of them........This whole computer thing is a phoney cycle: more speed, more RAM, more disk, quantum leaps in code bloat, requiring more speed, more RAM, etc.--all resulting in worse price performance.... The first thing we should do is kill all the programmers (Shakespeare).

GlueGuy · Jan 28, 2002

The first thing we should do is kill all the programmers

Uh oh. I'm leaving now. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

MChalkley · Jan 29, 2002

glennmac - Um, can I be spared if I agree with you? /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

I remember the amazing capabilities of the first Mac with 128k of RAM and one single-sided low-density floppy drive. That was before the days of the Internet, of course, but that machine would do an incredible amount of work, especially considering the resources it had.

MikePA · Jan 29, 2002

Wait for me, Glueguy, I'm right behind you. /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

Mosey · Jan 29, 2002

Even as another programmer, I can't do anything but agree with you! Software these days is way too complicated, full of useless features that no end user has a clue how to use. I use the latest version of MS Word at work and I hate it. They force people to do too much with the mouse. I prefer to use the keyboard (I can edit stuff faster in UNIX using VI or Emacs than I can in Windows using Word). I agree that it's all a scam designed to keep computer manufacturers and software companies in business.

But, on the flip side I guess I can't blame them all for wanting to stay in business. If everyone was like me, they wouldn't be selling anything anymore. My home computer is a Dell 486 SX running at 33MHZ running Windows 2.0. I use WordPerfect 5.0 and much prefer it over MS Word. It does everything I need it to do except access the internet, so I do that at work. But, even if I had a better computer at home I feel that the internet has a lot of improving to do before I'm ready to shell out $20/month for it.

I like that term "bloatware"! It reminds me of what my neighbor used to say about his welding skills. Admitting that he didn't really know what he was doing, he called it "quantity before quality". I would say that same statement applies to modern software.

StoneHeartFarm · Jan 29, 2002

glennmac

Our new house is getting closer to move in date, so I had the phone service hooked up. I wanted to keep my current phones and have new lines added out there so on move in day I can just go out and plug everything in.

The day the phone lines went in, the phones here went off. I called repair and they promised to fix it. The next day I called again and repair told me it's a SOFTWARE problem. The SOFTWARE won't let you have 2 residence addresses on the same phone bill. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif It took 2 days for the programmers to get it straightened out and almost another week for me to do damage control with my clients who couldn't figure out why my phone lines had been disconnected. (That's what the message said, not "changed to a new number", but DISCONNECTED /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif)

The good news is they fixed it, but, when I went out to hook up my lines, the interface was about 14' from the point where the wires come out of the house. So, I called repair and they said they'd come out and move it, no problem /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

TODAY, the repair guy showed up here (the old house) and said he had an order to move the phone service and where did I want it moved to? /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif I looked at the work order, and it had the phone numbers for the NEW house and directions to this one. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Apparently, the software now thinks the new numbers are here at the OLD house. At this point, the odds are pretty good that at least SOMETHING about this is gonna be messed up. I'm betting that I'm gonna have to move the blasted interface myself, or make more frantic cell phone calls to repair to get phone lines turned on. (Insert emoticon for "impending doom").

The moral here is: Only kill the programmers if you can get the drop on em, otherwise they'll make your life miserable. They can do with the push of a button what it'll take them 2 days to straighten back out.

SHF

cowboydoc · Jan 29, 2002

I completely agree with you that computers are a scam. The only thing worse than buying a new car is buying a new computer. As soon as you buy it it's worth half of what you paid for it and there's already something bigger and better.

TerryinMD · Jan 29, 2002

Et al....

Yeah, that's right!! /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

As you noticed, the systems/programming guys threw in the towel!! /w3tcompact/icons/king.gif Smart move!! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

I work in a systems development shop and am constantly amazed at how the current programming methodologies are employed. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif The young turks always want bigger, better, faster to get the work done. Yet, they never use what they currently have to it's fullest extent. Nor, do they wish to understand the simple process of tuning their code to get optimal performance. Nope, just add more stuff.... just buy this handee-dandee software, etc, etc......

To be honest though, the current desktop systems and software DO provide you with some great features. Are they necessary for the average computer user? No, not really. But, just like having that one tool that you MAY need to use at some future date, just in case something breaks or a friend needs some help...... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Terry

Buck · Jan 29, 2002

Glennmac,

I don't know about you, but I found that the program: "Attorney on a Disk" pays for the computer and the program in the first hour or two.

As a "Mac" Liberal, maybe you don't have access to such a program; To me it is the box scaper of the computer industry. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Buck

glennmac · Jan 29, 2002

I'm only picking on my Mac because it is what I have. I still like Macs much better than PC's. The Macs are merely frustrating to use. PC's drive you into a mega-cursing, Jack Nicholson axe-wielding paranoid insane fury. This may be the real reason Bird is considering moving from Frost, Texas, USA--he may have chopped up his abode when trying to install XP.

Alan L. · Jan 29, 2002

I agree. What Intel speeds up, Microsoft vows to slow down.

Bird · Jan 29, 2002

That's not too far off, Glennmac./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

TWINKLE_TOES · Jan 29, 2002

Terry,
As you noticed, the systems/programming guys threw in the towel!!/w3tcompact/icons/king.gif Smart move!!/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

I wouldn't count em down and out, Scruffy hasen't weighed in yet./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Al

kevincook · Jan 29, 2002

Alan L. wrote
"I agree. What Intel speeds up, Microsoft vows to slow down. "

I am convinced it is a competition between the hardware and software guys. The hardware guys are determined to build machines that are faster than ever and the software guys are just as determined to slow it back down.

Harv · Jan 29, 2002

Glenn -

It's usually more fun to disagree with you, but I just can't do it this time.

I've been using computers professionally for over 35 years now, and although both computers and software have come a long way in that time, I'd be hard pressed to call it all "improvement". When I first started, we were cramming some pretty impressive functionality into 4K or RAM -- the idea of a megabyte was still science fiction. Our "mainframes" at that time had a whopping 16K of core memory, and we thought we'd died and gone to heaven when we eventually upgraded to a 32K machine. I remember when our entire engineering staff failed to justify an additional 32K expansion unit. 32K was plenty enough to support a dozen programmers. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

[Here comes my soapbox issue] -- I was always an afficionado of lean, mean software and I loved squeezing cycles and bytes out of my assembly language programs. When the world was switching to Fortran and Pascal, I stubbornly held onto my principles and pitted my assembled code against the "higher level" programs. It was never a contest really -- my stuff ran several times faster and took an order of magnitude less memory. Where I eventually lost out was when it became apparent that I couldn't produce complex programs in time to meet deadlines, so I gave in and stepped up to the next level. I still found ways of streamlining my code, including coding portions of it with inline assembly code. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Getting a little geeky here, so let me skip the general evolution of languages up through and including the current object-oriented stuff (talk about bloat). Whenever I raised my hand in protest about how ineffecient our software products were becoming, I was pooh-poohed out of the room by claims that RAM was getting bigger and cheaper, CPU's were getting faster and competition was getting tougher. From a business standpoint, I could almost see their point. Almost. /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

So now I'm seeing the computer world from as much a consumer standpoint as I do as a developer, and I'm getting pretty disgusted. I probably put more demand on my computer than most folks, but even my old 250MHz PowerMac with 128 Megs of RAM and 8 Gigabytes of hard disk provide me with virtually all the computer speed and power that I can use. With the possible exception of manipulating 32 MB image files with Photoshop (which I don't do that much any more), the response and functionality of the system is plenty enough to keep me happy.

I keep thinking I want one of them fancy new-fangled translucent machines, but from what you've said, I'm probably just as well off staying put where I am. The problem, of course, is that more and more software is being released that will only work on the newer systems.

Eventually I will be forced to upgrade, and I hate being forced into anything.

Okay, I've had my say. You may kill me now.

DVerbarg · Jan 29, 2002

Software is much overrated! As a past programmer, (I saw the error of my ways, and quit!) and Director of IS, it was extremely frustrating/expensive to buy the first iteration of any software, Macs included. Don't get me wrong, I love Macs and have a G4 at home in addition to the Wintel PCs.

Glenn, IMHO, it is a combination of OSX and Microsoft that is the issue with your performance. My "old" 400 MHz G4 with OS 9.? runs pretty snappy for the graphics/video/games it gets used for. Its gets pretty sluggish whenever Microsoft programs are used.

Hang in there, since you can't hang the programmers, and wait for the next version of the software. Hopefully Apple and MS will get around to tuning the software once it reaches a stable position.

Buck · Jan 29, 2002

Well I guess I have to disagree with all of you. I don't think computers are harder to use. I think that you can do a heck of a lot more with them today.

You guys sound like you've given up.

It was less than 10 years ago that my company bought a supercomputer for us engineers. We paid over 1 million dollars for it. Last week I worked from home and had to develop some software on my PC. The software runs as fast and actually allows me to interact with the data.

The same software was developed 10 years earlier by myself and took six months for me to develop. Last week I wrote the same algorithm up in less than an afternoon. (The earlier work work fell in a classified umbrella, so I couldn't just port the code) This development time decrease is due to tremendous improvements in compiler and debugging tools, coupled with vast improvements in visualization tools.

I think a lot of the magic in computers is gone, because computing is now pervasive. But, in fact, computers are more magical than ever before. I used to love spending all day optimizing code. Today I don't have to. There is no need.

The problem that I find is that computers force me to confront the really hard problems, not the implementations.

Maybe that is why so many of us spend so much time on this forum!

Just to stir the pot, this new .NET stuff from Microsoft is revolutionary!

Buck

StoneHeartFarm · Jan 29, 2002

I want one of them fancy new-fangled translucent machines 

Harv,

Must be a MAC, the new PC's are available with a window in the side of the case and your choice of several different colored neon lights inside.

It's a known fact that putting neon lights on your computer makes it run faster. It's like painting 4x4 in 6" high letters on the side of a truck. Makes it run better, faster and go through more stuff. You only have to watch the Soccer Moms driving them to know it's true. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

SHF

Buck · Jan 29, 2002

I hear he is moving up North. Maybe he's getting tired of all those humid, sweat filled, flood ridden days in Frost.

glennmac · Jan 29, 2002

Harv.......the transluscent ones are now obsolescent not new-fangled. That is, if you were referring to the 1998 iMacs. They've just been replaced by the new iMacs, which look like a half a melon sprouting an LCD display. Jobs has proclaimed that CRT's, like floppy disks, are dead. I think he's right......Apple just announced yesterday new dual processor 1 gig G4 machines, which they claim can run at 15 gigaflops. I remember in the 1980's when only a Cray vector processor exceeded one gigaflop.......Actually, one of the reasons I like Macs, too, is their obsession with style. I see that as a virtue, given that the insides of computers are so prosaic....Yes, software obsolescence and microprocessor obsolescence, those are other wonderful phenomena. That's why I went OSX, knowing that in two years no one would be writing programs for pre-OSX anymore.... I think the best thing is to drop out of the computer rat race and, if you are happy with your current configuration and it is stable, just keep it alive and stay with it.......Speaking of soapboxes, in 1960 I learned to program an IBM 650 in a language called SOAP and another called MAD. Any of you youngsters ever heard of them?