Flail Mower Considering Flail Mower

[BoylermanCT]

I switched from mowing my two acre field twice a year with my bush hog to every week with my trusty Craftsman lawn tractor. The field is a bit rough, and I think the Craftsman's life (and operator's) is being shortened by the bumps, jarring and bouncing. I mow on the highest setting (4"), and I like the finished look when I am done. There are no rocks left in the field (hit them with the bush hog and removed them prior to using my lawn tractor). I now have to mow the field each week or it will get too tall and thick for the Craftsman. I would like to get a different mower that will give me a lawn look but not require me to mow every week - I'd plan for every other or 3rd week at the most.

I have a Montana 2844 tractor, and am considering either a 72" finish mower or a 68" flail mower. My concern with the finish mower is I might smoke the belts if the grass gets too tall and thick, and with the rough ground, I'm concerned about the wheels and casters breaking. My concern with the flail mower is will I like the cut when done?

If the grass is 12" tall, can a finish mower cut it down to 5"? Can the flail mower do it? I know my bush hog can, but as expected, its a total hack job. My budget would be around $1500 for a mower. Any advice?

 

[allen in texas]

In my opinion, the flail with the grass blades outperforms the finish mower and is a ton tougher. Not too sure about your budget. I made the statement on another thread that my flail with the grass blades rivals or betters the cut of my reel mower. I stick by that opinion. I mow my lawn with my flail. I have pictures somewhere on here...

 

[ishiboo]

You will love the finish quality of the flail. It will take down tall grass no problem, but also leave a cut equal to the finish mower.

The only thing I don't like is there are like 156 blades, and if you hit something on a finish flail it takes quite a long time to change them out.

 

[leonz]

I switched from mowing my two acre field twice a year with my bush hog
to every week with my trusty Craftsman lawn tractor.

The field is a bit rough, and I think the Craftsman's life (and operator's) is being
shortened by the bumps, jarring and bouncing.

I mow on the highest setting (4"), and I like the finished look when I am done.
There are no rocks left in the field (hit them with the bush hog and removed them
prior to using my lawn tractor).

I now have to mow the field each week or it will get too tall and thick for the Craftsman.
I would like to get a different mower that will give me a lawn look but not require me
to mow every week - I'd plan for every other or 3rd week at the most.

I have a Montana 2844 tractor, and am considering either a 72" finish mower or a 68" flail
mower. My concern with the finish mower is I might smoke the belts if the grass gets too
tall and thick, and with the rough ground, I'm concerned about the wheels and casters
breaking. My concern with the flail mower is will I like the cut when done?

If the grass is 12" tall, can a finish mower cut it down to 5"? Can the flail mower do it?
I know my bush hog can, but as expected, its a total hack job.
My budget would be around $1500 for a mower. Any advice?

============================================================================

If your budget is only around $1500.00.
Your going to be buying a used flail mower.

I have no idea what a new 48 inch Vrisimo or Caroni flail mower
would cost but the Vrisimo prices are listed on their web site.

The 48 inch finish cut Caroni flail mowers are a special order as agrisupply
does not have them in inventory unless that has changed recently.

NOW a 48 inch Vrisimo flail mower is a vineyard duty flail mower and
is more than adequate for the work as they will mow heavy brush and
pruned branches.

With that in mind a used 7 foot JD25A flail mower is reasonable
for your mule as you have a 2615 pound rear lift capacity according to
the folks at tractordata.com

With a wider flail mower you will need to go a bit slower but it will leave
you with a golf course finish for 2 weeks or more.

My father used a Ford Jubilee gear tractor with a 7 foot JD25A finish flail mower
to reclaim old pasture that had 12-15 foot goldenrod and heavy underbrush.

If you buy a 48 inch finish flail mower will give you a cut equal to a reel mower after
a few weeks of mowing and the grass will not be as difficult to mow as the heavy brush is gone.

The flail mower will allow you to recut the clippings a second or third time when doing the
initial mowing and the clippings will dissolve quickly to mulch the ground.

There is a 1992 JD370 finish flail mower for sale at Z&M ag and turf in Oakfield, New York for $2,900.00
buying one of these units new will be almost 9,000+- with tax.

 

[TractorToolsDirect]

For your tractor, at 28 hp gross, you should be able to go with a 5 foot flail, Like the Caroni 1600 model. Even with the brush blades, it will give you a nice looking cut, probably as good as your craftsman and definitely better than any brush hog. And you have the option of cutting every week, once a month, or twice a year. It will look good, with no clumping. Regrowth is even. The price of flails has come down a lot, so they are a viable option for people wanting to mow grass as well as clearing brush. FYI, the Caroni 1600B flail mower has 24 mounting points, with two blades connected at each mounting point. The 1600P (finish blades) has 24 blades. Make sure you get the TM series and not the TL, which is a lighter duty machine.

 

[GManBart]

A flail will definitely cut low enough to do what you want. Below is a video with my new Phoenix/Sicma TE220 (87" cut). It has finish blades on it, and if you want, it will actually cut down until the flail leave a line in the dirt. As you can see, the weeds were a couple of feet tall, and it took them right down to the ground with no problem.




I think the quality is a bit better here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h6uBp8X-Ts

 

[BoylermanCT]

Thanks for the responses. I was thinking the 68" flail because the tractor is 64" wide at the rear tires. I realize I may have to go slow since I am running a 28hp tractor. But the field is rough enough I brush hog in 1st gear, so would expect to mow at the same speed. If my little Craftsman can mow it, my tractor should have no issue! Some of you mentioned a 48" or 60" mower. If these are offset, won't that mean I am not mowing my driving path? Or is it my budget that is driving the smaller mower? I was considering a Caroni 1900 or a Betstco 175 so I was cutting my tractor's width.

 

[GManBart]

Thanks for the responses. I was thinking the 68" flail because the tractor is 64" wide at the rear tires. I realize I may have to go slow since I am running a 28hp tractor. But the field is rough enough I brush hog in 1st gear, so would expect to mow at the same speed. If my little Craftsman can mow it, my tractor should have no issue! Some of you mentioned a 48" or 60" mower. If these are offset, won't that mean I am not mowing my driving path? Or is it my budget that is driving the smaller mower? I was considering a Caroni 1900 or a Betstco 175 so I was cutting my tractor's width.

In many cases, people want to offset (typically to the right) so they can ride along with the left front tire on the line of your last cut. That eliminates the guesswork, which sometimes winds up leaving sections you missed.

 

[TractorToolsDirect]

The Caroni model 1600 has a 63" cutting width and is offset 4 1/2 inches to the right. That means it would extend beyond your right wheel but not the left. There is an additional offset position as well that will offset the mower 7 more inches to the right.

The model 1900 is another 12 inches wider. all 12 inches is added to the right of the hitch, giving you more reach to the right side.

 

[leonz]

Thanks for the responses. I was thinking the 68" flail because the tractor is 64" wide at the rear tires. I realize I may have to go slow since I am running a 28hp tractor. But the field is rough enough I brush hog in 1st gear, so would expect to mow at the same speed. If my little Craftsman can mow it, my tractor should have no issue! Some of you mentioned a 48" or 60" mower. If these are offset, won't that mean I am not mowing my driving path? Or is it my budget that is driving the smaller mower? I was considering a Caroni 1900 or a Betstco 175 so I was cutting my tractor's width.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Save your money, call the folks at Z+M Ag and Turf and you will have a forever mower that you can
use with the next mule if you upgrade.

 

[BoylermanCT]

I am looking at the Caroni flails, TM1600 and TM1900. They come with either grass blades or brush blades. Agri-Supply seems to only carry the mower with type B brush blades. Would these blades give me a smooth cut or do I want the type P blades? The B blades are Y blades. Won't they result in a "bumpy" finish since the blades are not horizontal to the ground? I just mowed the field again with my trusty Craftsman. Takes 2 hours, and would love to reduce that to 1 hour or less. Sure looks nice when done!

 

[GManBart]

I am looking at the Caroni flails, TM1600 and TM1900. They come with either grass blades or brush blades. Agri-Supply seems to only carry the mower with type B brush blades. Would these blades give me a smooth cut or do I want the type P blades? The B blades are Y blades. Won't they result in a "bumpy" finish since the blades are not horizontal to the ground? I just mowed the field again with my trusty Craftsman. Takes 2 hours, and would love to reduce that to 1 hour or less. Sure looks nice when done!

Typically the Y shaped blades give the finest cut, and you shouldn't notice anything unusual when you're done.

Edit: I was confused and thought the Caroni P blades were hammer style rather than scoop style. The P should give a more even cut, but I still don't think the B blade will give an unacceptable cut.

 

[TractorToolsDirect]

P will give a smoother cut. Yes, the B blades will give more of a zigzag surface on a lawn.

 

[leonz]

I am looking at the Caroni flails, TM1600 and TM1900. They come with either grass blades or brush blades. Agri-Supply seems to only carry the mower with type B brush blades. Would these blades give me a smooth cut or do I want the type P blades? The B blades are Y blades. Won't they result in a "bumpy" finish since the blades are not horizontal to the ground? I just mowed the field again with my trusty Craftsman. Takes 2 hours, and would love to reduce that to 1 hour or less. Sure looks nice when done!

==================================================================================

Good morning,

As you have come one day further with your inquiry;

Rotary cutters and rotary mower only provide the end user with
half the actual width of cut Per Blade so if you have a 4 foot brush
mower you have only 2 foot of cutting edge available to do work.

The quality of cut with the side slicers far exceeds any of the rotary
cutter or mower cut as the horizontal cut tears the grass or brush to
accomplish the same task and the side slicers are much sharper.

The other issue is that a flail mower has many many more inches of
slicing edge exposed to the work making the clippings much smaller
in length per foot of cut.


EDIT:

The scoop/duckfoot/shovel type of flail mower knives are a dual use blade for sod and brush where in they leave fine sod with a waffle mower pattern and require the end user to mow at right angles to obtain a more finished look as the total cutting edge length per foot of cut is smaller.

The clippings are also longer and the scoop knife does not have the ability to slice the clippings a second time very well as the blade tends to lift them rather than lift and slice them each time- hence its ability cut brush quickly as well.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

==================================================================================

Good morning,

As you have come one day further with your inquiry;

Rotary cutters and rotary mower only provide the end user with
half the actual width of cut Per Blade so if you have a 4 foot brush
mower you have only 2 foot of cutting edge available to do work.

The quality of cut with the side slicers far exceeds any of the rotary
cutter or mower cut as the horizontal cut tears the grass or brush to
accomplish the same task and the side slicers are much sharper.

The other issue is that a flail mower has many many more inches of
slicing edge exposed to the work making the clippings much smaller
in length per foot of cut.


EDIT:

The scoop/duckfoot/shovel type of flail mower knives are a dual use blade for sod and brush where in they leave fine sod with a waffle mower pattern and require the end user to mow at right angles to obtain a more finished look as the total cutting edge length per foot of cut is smaller.

The clippings are also longer and the scoop knife does not have the ability to slice the clippings a second time very well as the blade tends to lift them rather than lift and slice them each time- hence its ability cut brush quickly as well.

Leon, if I understand your post correctly, I think you are saying the "B" knives in TractorToolsDirect's post would leave a better finish, and the "P" knives would be what you are calling "duck foot/scoop" shaped knives. Correct? If so, that is the opposite of what TractorToolsDirect is saying. Maybe I'm just confused.

 

[leonz]

No, you not confused my friend.
The scoop knives can be used for both, but to get a better finish with the scoop knives and
the rotor with the two rows of side slicer knives would require you to mow at right angles to
get a better finish with good sod.

The greater the knife count the better the cut.

 

[BoylermanCT]

Leonz, thank you for your input. To add to your point, my 5' rotary bush hog cutter blades are 24" long each, but the cutting surface is only 5" at the end. So in reality you don't get 24" of cutting surface. So it makes sense the flail cuts much better since you have cutting blades all along the length of the mower. If I were to sharpen by Bush Hog blades to lawn mower sharpness, would it cut reasonably? I just bought new blades for it, and will be installing them in the next couple of weeks. It would not take too long to sharpen them to give them a sharp edge. Or is the tip speed too slow on a bush hog?

Back to the flail mower.. So since I don't want to mow my field twice to get the best cut, you are saying the Y blades would give me a better cut than a single pass of the scoop knives? Will the Y blades leave a smooth flat surface, or will it be bumpy due to the Y shape? Or am I confusing my field with a golf course? Will it be noticeable?

Is there a loaner program anywhere in CT that I can try before I buy? That would be the best!

 

[leonz]

Leonz, thank you for your input. To add to your point, my 5' rotary bush hog cutter blades are 24" long each, but the cutting surface is only 5" at the end. So in reality you don't get 24" of cutting surface. So it makes sense the flail cuts much better since you have cutting blades all along the length of the mower. If I were to sharpen by Bush Hog blades to lawn mower sharpness, would it cut reasonably? I just bought new blades for it, and will be installing them in the next couple of weeks. It would not take too long to sharpen them to give them a sharp edge. Or is the tip speed too slow on a bush hog?

Back to the flail mower.. So since I don't want to mow my field twice to get the best cut, you are saying the Y blades would give me a better cut than a single pass of the scoop knives? Will the Y blades leave a smooth flat surface, or will it be bumpy due to the Y shape? Or am I confusing my field with a golf course? Will it be noticeable?

Is there a loaner program anywhere in CT that I can try before I buy? That would be the best!

============================================================================

You are not confusing anything,

1. The turf/sod/brush density
2. the travel speed
3.The mowers height

4. rotary mowers and rotary cutters tear the grass blade/brush to cut it.

5. The Verticut method using the side slicer and scoop knives slices the grass
blade with much more precision and efficiency in my opinion.

a. you will not have a bumpy surface unless you mow too closely- this only occurs
when using the dethatching blades and the Y blades together at the same time.

6. The scoop knives are a dual purpose knife blade and always will be and you may be required to
mow over an area a second time BUT in saying that you have to decide HOW OFTEN YOU NEED TO MOW,
how often you mow will determine the condition of the sod and its ability to sprout grass seed if you
want to improve your sod and reduce invading plants like poison ivy with a close cut every week or so.

I mowed my dads place of 6 acres every four days or so with the finish flail mower(that I now own)
and had no issues as there was never any dead grass.

You are going to create the end result with the mower you buy and you will have to decide if that is what
you want.

A finish flail with four rows of knives will always, always, give the best cut with sharp knives.
the more often you mow, that much more grass and brush will be shredded/sliced and turn to mulch
that will rot away quickly and dissolve.

The rotary brush mower blades are not ment to be sharpened to a lawn mower
sharpness with a hot grind sharpening anyway.

They are ment to be sharpened only slightly with a slightly blunt edge due to the
thickness of the steel used to make them.

I would chat with a local dealer and do not pay any attention to the crap of "you do not want a flail mower"
and ask for the name of a mower owner in the area to talk to. you can also call a highway department and
ask about their flail mowers.

The more you mow with a flail mower the smoother the turf will become as it eliminates the brush clumps.

The secret to mowing is overlap when dealing with areas mowed less frequently NOT a higher cutting height.