coolant / ford 7.3 ( wet liner? )

[fieldserviceengineer]

I get my test strips at my JD dealer.

When I replaced my coolant in the truck and tractor a few years back I ended up using JD Cool Guard for both. I think there is a new JD Cool Guard but I have not looked at it yet. I think this fall I am due to change coolant again in both engines. I suppose it will be with Cool Guard again.

Later,
Dan

John Deere Cool Gard I was a hybrid coolant composed of conventional cavitation protection inhibitors, nitrite and molybdate. It was hybrid by virtue of the benzoic acid (OAT). It was a very robustly formulated coolant. Really good stuff. Now, Cool Gard II is a nitrite free OAT coolant. JD test strips will not test for anything in this coolant that the kit could detect in the Cool Gard I product. The new JD CGII product will protect your engine. I am certain John Deere would advise against mixing but if mixed with conventional chemistry coolant (one containing SCA), it will still continue to provide cavitation pitting and corrosion protection. Full OAT coolants which are now coming onto the market are nitrite-free because of the European Tree Huggers who believe that nitrite is now evil for the environment. Nitrite -free OAT coolants are not better at cavitation pitting protection just another approach and an expensive one at that. That goes for Fleetguard ES Compleat OAT formula as well. It is nitrite-free but much more expensive as the ingredients are more expensive.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

Along with using the additive, I have been advised to never add tap water.
Always use distilled water in your blending.
What amazes me is that NOBODY that I know is aware of the things we are talking about here. They just dump in whatever is on hand.
Haven't heard of one blowing up (yet).

 

[Soundguy]

the tap vs distilld is likely a mineral issue.

the average vehicle owner probably is doing good if the poor vehicle gets a yearly oil change.

tires and brakes don't get checked untill flat or squeaky.



soundguy

 

[Highbeam]

wow.. seems like you need a ooigie board to figure out what you have and need.

shame on the manufactures of all involved for making the procedure so shrouded in mystery for the end user..

soundguy

I'm with you soundguy. I have owned my used PSD for just about two years and have yet to do anything with the coolant system for fear of screwing it up. Then also feel that if I don't do something that I will screw it up. Screwing it up can effectively "total" the typical truck with a 7.3 since the engine is so expensive.

The ford enthusiast sites seem to all recommend the ultimate solution is to buy the real ELC like from fleetguard or International. It needs to additives for 300,000 miles. You need to flush the old stuff out really well though.

 

[Soundguy]

for my 99 I went with green coolant and napa kool addative 4056.. suposedly a sca 2 .. and I think I am safe with that. beter'n nuttin I guess.

soundguy

 

[2manyrocks]

wow.. seems like you need a ooigie board to figure out what you have and need.

shame on the manufactures of all involved for making the procedure so shrouded in mystery for the end user..

soundguy

I remember reading on another website that some folks there had the personal opinion that Ford didn't do enough to warn about potential cavitation problems in the International diesel engine series and the need to use coolant additives going back to the 1980's. In those days, the engine wasn't as stressed because it didn't have the output of today's engines.

They've made these trucks more powerful, but at the same time, they have made them more complex in my opinion compared to the 1986 or so Ford diesel I used to own.

 

[Soundguy]

comples is ok.

just have a simple direct coolant spec or addative spec that you can cross reference and be good.. not this gobelty gook of superceeded specs and formulations..e tc.

whenb i went to my local ford dealer to ask questions.. they looked at me like I was crazy...

soundguy

 

[Egon]

I remember reading on another website that some folks there had the personal opinion that Ford didn't do enough to warn about potential cavitation problems in the International diesel engine series and the need to use coolant additives going back to the 1980's. In those days, the engine wasn't as stressed because it didn't have the output of today's engines.

Did they also mention the casting problems resulting in high porosity blocks?

 

[fieldserviceengineer]

Some of 7.3's had yellow coolant some had green, I'm not sure which additive goes with which but I do know that Ford sells test strips so you can check to see if and when the additive is needed. I also have been told by a Navistar Engineer at a fleet presentation Ford did that you should NOT mix yellow and green coolant, they are not compatible. On the later 6 liters this slimes up the EGR cooler causing them to overheat and crack.

International engineer has part of it correct. Mixing is discouraged because the properties of the Ford Motorcraft coolant may be reduced if the "green" coolant does not have similar or sufficient additive chemistry. To say they are incompatible is absolutely incorrect. You have to understand that most engineers have a bare minimum of chemistry in their education unless they are chemical engineers. The "incompatible" story has been generated by marketing people trying to create something unique about their product. It first surfaced in 1995 when Texaco introduced their organic acid coolant for HD applications. In order to set it apart from conventional chemistry coolants, they invented a story.

Bottom line: mixing can dilute the chemical protection of the original coolant if the "green" has little or no additives that the original has. Mixing of colors does eventually result in color change......just color not chemical properties such as some reaction that could harm the system.

 

[2manyrocks]

Did they also mention the casting problems resulting in high porosity blocks?

I don't remember. They seemed to talk about everything else-especially when they bored out the block from 6.9 L to 7.3 L.

This whole thing about coolant additives brought back some of it to me, but from a distance, it appears that the multiple choices for coolant additives and the lack of information about which ones to use are still causing problems for owners.

When diesel was .99 cents verus 1.30 for gas, it was one thing to pay a bit more for a diesel engine, but it's a more complicated choice to weigh out now.

 

[Bill_C]

Note for clarification: the Powerstroke 7.3 liter engines are NOT the same block as the earlier 6.9/7.3 IDI engines. Many people think all 7.3's are the same block, they are not.

The earlier IDI engines did have cavitation and pinhole issues. These were essentially eliminated with the newer Powerstroke 7.3 engines. As noted earlier, the Powerstrokes are parent bore, not wetted liner.

If the 7.3 is '95 model year or later, it is a Powerstroke. The '94 model years are confusing; Ford offered the 7.3 IDI normally aspirated, the 7.3 IDI turbo, and then in late 94 they introduced the 7.3 DI Powerstroke.

The coolant issue is often debated on the Powerstroke forums. I personally use Fleetcharge, pre-charged with the SCA, in my 94 Powerstroke.

Oh, and by the way, International made ALL of these engines. It's only recently that Ford switched to "their" motor.

 

[fieldserviceengineer]

From some posts it would appear that there is the belief that if the cylinder block design uses replaceable liners then those engines are the only models that require the use of a pitting (cavitation) protection chemical. While the Ford (International) engine is a parent bore block (cast in bores) it, too, requires the use of supplemental coolant additives as addressed by Ford in their O&M manual. Even the newest Ford diesels which have the factory-fill coolant, Motorcraft Premium Gold (Zerex G-05 antifreeze) is also a coolant that contains anti-cavitation additives only different from the Ford VC8 supplemental additive. To answer the post that the coolant choices by the OEMs are confusing, I would agree as now the pursuit of all phases of the market by these OEM companies has now encompassed "only our coolant, only our filters" mentality. So, if you are concerned about what to use in your Ford or International diesel, use Ford's recommendations. Use Intenational's recommendations. You cannot go wrong. But if are looking for one coolant and additive package that can be used in all your diesel applications then you have to do some studying to determine what are the coolant maintenance requirements for all these units and what are the common specifications. Dig deep enough and you may find that the underlying industry specification is ASTM D6210. Any coolant that can meet that specification will provide satisfactory engine cooling system protection when used and maintained properly. There is an earlier spec that was aimed at the trucking industry, TMC RP329. Both these specs are nearly identical when you dig into them.

Here they are in a nutshell:

* Both call for the use of a minimum of 1200 PPM of nitrite if the additive package uses only sodium nitrite as the pitting protection
* Both have an alternative additive spec that calls for a minimum of 780 PPM of a combination of nitrite and molybdate (sodium molybdate) but requiring a minimum nitrite concentration of 200 PPM nitrite and the balance can be molybdate
* Neither has a specification on the use of phosphate as a buffer agent as some Detroit Diesel service people will contend

The above are for premixed coolants, not concentrates. You can test a coolant with test strips that are available from Fleetguard, Baldwin, Donaldson, Fram, Wix (Napa). I do know that the all except the Wix (not sure about them) can measure both nitrite and molybdate and give results in PPM or in units per gallon as a measure of protection. The John Deere test strips have a different reference card and the numbers on that refer to how much liquid additive you need to add to get back to John Deere's recommendation for their engines. So, I would steer clear of the JD strips as they do not represent necessarily the requirements of other engines. Some test strips can measure only the nitrite level and ignore the molybdate level. Strips from Penray and Detroit Diesel measure nitrite only. No problem unless you have a coolant that has both additives such as the earlier Ford coolants treated with Ford VC8 (FW15, FW16). Strips that can measure both nitrite and molybdate can be used to test coolants that are nitrite-only.

Some coolants now coming onto the market no longer use any nitrite and little or no molybdate. While these products are OAT (organic acid technology) they do present a problem for you in your maintenance as there is no way to test them with present test strip technologies. I would keep away from those if you have a choice in coolant selection.

John Deere Cool Gard I was a hybrid coolant meaning that its inhibitor technology was composed of conventional cavitation protection (nitrite and molybdate for them) combined with an organic acid (benzoic) plus a buffer (antacid additive). Cool Gard II is now a hybrid "nitrite-free" coolant. At present, testing of John Deere Cool Gard II will only show a small amount of molybdate but since there is no nitrite. Test strips available now would treat that coolant as having no precharge and give maintenance instructions to add nitrite-containing liquid additives or coolant filters. As far as JD is concerned that would not be the outcome they want for that coolant. But adding conventional SCA to such coolants will not harm them nor cause any engine problems.