Coyotes and Deer

[N80]

No, what I've heard is that coyotes and cockroaches will be around long after mankind is gone.

I think all that comes from 1950's fears of post-nuclear anihilation. Outside of invertebrates we humans are one of the most successful species ever.

But why the sad face in reference to "us" surviving? Are you one of those environmentalists who will only be happy when mankind has been removed?

Ken

That's a puzzled face not a sad face, but yes, I am a card carrying leftist, pinko, enviro-terrorist anarchist hydrostatic-transmission-hating wacko. My entire wardrobe consists of che Gueverra t-shirts and I'm on CNN all the time as the last Occupy Wallstreet protestor in Mayberry. I thought everyone here knew that.

 

[dmccarty]

As I understand it, coyotes are a lot more adaptable to human presence than wolves. Coyotes adapt to urban/suburban areas, wolves did not.

I have heard that too but I question if it is true. We all but wiped out wolves in the US so they have a much longer road to recovery. How would we know that wolves do not adapt when they simply do not exist over the vast majority of the US? We wiped out the wolves and we could wipe out the coyotes if we wanted too. I am not say that we should, but that we could and that we can make dent in coyote population if desired. Put a bounty on coyotes and watch the population drop.

Later,
Dan

 

[N80]

I think some species are clearly more adaptable than others. Physiologically the extinct Ivory Billed woodpecker is almost indistinct from the very common Pileated woodpecker that it shared the same habitat and range with.

Could we humans wipe out coyotes? Sure, given draconian measures. But I think we are talking about measures within the realm of fiscal and PR constraints. Could we lower populations in a given area with trapping, hunting and maybe even bounties? Of course. But I personally believe it will take more than irate farmers and deer hunters and even dedicated coyote hunters. We've had all that here for 5-10 years and the population is at least stable within the small territory that I can observe....maybe a thousand acres or so.

 

[Biggreenavalanche]

I think all that comes from 1950's fears of post-nuclear anihilation. Outside of invertebrates we humans are one of the most successful species ever.



That's a puzzled face not a sad face, but yes, I am a card carrying leftist, pinko, enviro-terrorist anarchist hydrostatic-transmission-hating wacko. My entire wardrobe consists of che Gueverra t-shirts and I'm on CNN all the time as the last Occupy Wallstreet protestor in Mayberry. I thought everyone here knew that.

LMAO !

 

[westcliffe01]

Dan, in the time that the great predator reduction took place, people lived on the land, and were not concentrated in cities. Quite the opposite to today. The people who now live on the land have no hope of making a (substantial) impact on the coyote population, any more than the Texans can to the hogs they have, without resorting to shooting them from the air, hundreds in 1 day, as opposed to 5-10 a year from the ground. No-one (especially the "environmentalists") seem to consider how the human population is distributed anymore.

 

[J35]

I have heard that too but I question if it is true. We all but wiped out wolves in the US so they have a much longer road to recovery. How would we know that wolves do not adapt when they simply do not exist over the vast majority of the US? We wiped out the wolves and we could wipe out the coyotes if we wanted too. I am not say that we should, but that we could and that we can make dent in coyote population if desired. Put a bounty on coyotes and watch the population drop.

Later,
Dan

Think about this, the wolf was removed with nothing more than guns, traps and strychnine and a few good men.

The coyote was there the whole time and he is still here today with no help from anyone.

In the 1950's ,60's and 70's whole armies of men were tasked with eliminating the coyote, men that knew the coyote, they had guns, traps, dogs, strychnine, 1080, airplanes, helicopters, free range, no seasons, year round persecution. Guess what--no joy.

The US Fish and wildlife still employ several good men that hit trouble spots today, no poison, Mainly airplanes and guys on the ground with dogs mopping up the cripples and den hunting with dogs for pups when the planes not flying.

You mentioned bounties, I believe there are still quite a few counties in the US that pay bounties.

But the best money is paid from the fur market, check out the recent wild fur sales in the US and Canada . Add up the numbers sold from that one sale and then ponder how many sales there are scattered across the US and Canada and then ponder that number and then ponder the number you would have if you multiplied that by say 35 years that's a heck of a lot of coyotes. I have seen 20,000 coyotes at a small auction in Globe AZ. Just about every state has a fur auction once or twice a year. A renewable resource if there ever was one.

After all that the only thing that ever had a regional effect on coyote population was Parvo Distemper and that only lasted about two years back in the 80's.

Adaptable, He is genetically programmed to be just that.

Have fun --J

 

[J35]

WLOS ABC 13 - Western North Carolina's News :: News - Top Stories - Coyote Bounty Rules

 

[Beltzington]

I think all that comes from 1950's fears of post-nuclear anihilation. Outside of invertebrates we humans are one of the most successful species ever.



That's a puzzled face not a sad face, but yes, I am a card carrying leftist, pinko, enviro-terrorist anarchist hydrostatic-transmission-hating wacko. My entire wardrobe consists of che Gueverra t-shirts and I'm on CNN all the time as the last Occupy Wallstreet protestor in Mayberry. I thought everyone here knew that.

No, a true intellect would not have misspelled Guevara, seems you have confused even yourself. Time put this rant to bed, or not, two coyotes walked into a bar...

 

[dmccarty]

Think about this, the wolf was removed with nothing more than guns, traps and strychnine and a few good men.

The coyote was there the whole time and he is still here today with no help from anyone.

In the 1950's ,60's and 70's whole armies of men were tasked with eliminating the coyote, men that knew the coyote, they had guns, traps, dogs, strychnine, 1080, airplanes, helicopters, free range, no seasons, year round persecution. Guess what--no joy.

The wolf was removed over a period of centuries. The coyotes removal was over a period of decades. Big difference. If we wanted the coyote gone, it would be gone, but we don't want the coyote gone. Good gracious we eradicates Smallpox from the population, and if not for nut jobs, Polio would be gone. Malaria and other mosquito born illnesses used to be a huge problem in the US but we wiped out the mosquito's carrying the diseases. A big four legged critter would be easy in comparison.

I don't think that coyotes SHOULD be removed nor do I think they WILL be removed. The vast majority of people do not live on the land anymore and their food is not a product of their direct labor. People just don't see a problem if a coyote, hawk, or fox eats someone elses live stock, after all, it is not THEIR problem. Back in the day, when that chicken WAS worth something, when momma was selling surplus eggs and keeping the egg money, and when the chicken would be dinner one day, loosing that chicken to a fox, coyote, wolf, or chicken hawk impacted your belly. You killed that threat to your lively hood. This is not a concern to the vast majority of Americans today. If it was, coyotes would be wiped like the wolves.

Later,
Dan

 

[N80]

No, a true intellect would not have misspelled Guevara,

But a true sense of humor might have.......

 

[N80]

I don't think you can draw any conclusions by comparing coyotes with wolves. As mentioned, Ivory Bill and Pileated woodpeckers look alike and share the same range and requirements for food. One is extinct. One is thriving. The one that is extinct is extinct because of its behavioral needs, not physiologic. I suspect the same is true with wolves. Ivory Bills required huge expanses of land for courtship and territorial reasons so there were never as many per square mile. Likewise, wolf numbers were probably never anywhere near coyote numbers.

The point that we could wipe out coyotes probably isn't relative. It might be a possibility, but it is a tremendous improbability.

 

[sdkubota]

DDT could wipe out malaria for all time in less then a years time. Instead someone makes up an unsubstantiated story about DDT may be causing thin eagle eggs and the pesticide is banned. As a result, millions of people die needlessly every year from malaria and they call themselves compassionate. Someone explain what good the mosquito is?

 

[dmccarty]

I don't think you can draw any conclusions by comparing coyotes with wolves. As mentioned, Ivory Bill and Pileated woodpeckers look alike and share the same range and requirements for food. One is extinct. One is thriving. The one that is extinct is extinct because of its behavioral needs, not physiologic. I suspect the same is true with wolves. Ivory Bills required huge expanses of land for courtship and territorial reasons so there were never as many per square mile. Likewise, wolf numbers were probably never anywhere near coyote numbers.

The point that we could wipe out coyotes probably isn't relative. It might be a possibility, but it is a tremendous improbability.

Ivory Bills require old stands of pine trees that are cleared with wild fires which is a very specific environment. Wolves live all over the world in areas that really surprised me.



This is from File:Wolf distr.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Surviving in those locations really surprised me. They seem pretty danged adaptable to live in some of those areas. Red Wolves in NC are living in at least five counties down east and while these are not the most populated counties in NC, it ain't the middle of no where either. A web page talking about the Red Wolf recovery, said,

HABITAT: The last red wolves were found in coastal prairie and marsh habitat because this was the last area in which the animals were allowed to remain. Any habitat area in the southeastern United States of sufficient size, which provides adequate food, water, and the basic cover requirement of heavy vegetation, should be suitable habitat for the red wolf. Telemetry studies indicate that red wolf home range requirements vary from about 25 to 50 square miles.

Red Wolves could easily live on our land, we have the cover, food and water. Apparently Red Wolves will reduce Coyote population, well, they will, if the two are not busy mating with each other. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Later,
Dan

 

[N80]

DDT could wipe out malaria for all time in less then a years time. Instead someone makes up an unsubstantiated story about DDT may be causing thin eagle eggs and the pesticide is banned. As a result, millions of people die needlessly every year from malaria and they call themselves compassionate. Someone explain what good the mosquito is?

As they say, the road to hades is paved with good intentions. Most people think that banning DDT was a triumph of environmentalism over industrialism and greed. It was a media and public education hoopla of epic proportions that has still not subsided. When in fact it is still considered the most effective form of mosquito control and as mentioned, millions die because we want to protect birds. In the US, dead birds are a much better media tool than dead Africans.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a bird guy. Love wildlife. But the issue is that there are no solutions, whether it be doing something or doing nothing that are without consequence. In the case of DDT, the developed world got its panties in a wad about bird protection and the third world suffered for it. Sometimes you have to make hard choices.


Dan, the point is, Ivory bills ate the same stuff and lived in the same size hole in a tree as a pileated. Ivorys are gone, pileated still here. It is rarely safe to compare the success/failure of one species with that of another when trying to draw management/protection conclusions.

 

[Kyle241]

A pack of coyotes (Eastern) can and will run down an adult deer. The tendency is the deer will tire first so unless it can get a good head start or get around some obstacles the coyote cannot, typically it will tire first over distance. Typically they are successful in winter and they will take turns tiring the deer out. Coyotes do not give up easily and will trail the same deer for hours.

http://hunting.outdoorzy.com/coyote-kills-deer-photos/

Personally I like the sound of coyotes and like that they are around. I do understand some individuals concerns over their pets and livestock however around my parts the number of livestock killed by coyotes is low based on compensation requests by farmers. The deer population has taken a hit and it's possibly due to coyotes, hunters and vehicles is my first guess as I know their numbers are down significantly.

 

[Ken45101]

Personally I like the sound of coyotes and like that they are around. I do understand some individuals concerns over their pets and livestock however around my parts the number of livestock killed by coyotes is low based on compensation requests by farmers. The deer population has taken a hit and it's possibly due to coyotes, hunters and vehicles is my first guess as I know their numbers are down significantly.

You are welcome to listen to the sound all you want. I would much rather listen to wolves.

Deer numbers, AFAIK, are not down here in Ohio. Plenty of people getting hurt by them on the roads. A few weeks ago, a school bus collided with a deer locally, five were taken to the hospital.

Ken

 

[Kyle241]

I prefer wolves too however they have been essentially eliminated here.

 

[Redbug]

Male mosquitoes do a lot of pollination, especially up north where bees are not prevalent. Everything has it's place in the grand scheme of things...

 

[N80]

Male mosquitoes do a lot of pollination, especially up north where bees are not prevalent. Everything has it's place in the grand scheme of things...

They must pollinate kudzu down here........:laughing:

 

[Biggreenavalanche]

They must pollinate kudzu down here........:laughing:

LMAO, amen to that !:laughing: