Creating a Lake

[Glowplug]

So...if it takes you an average of 2.25 secs to fill two 5 gallon buckets (10 gals) that pump is putting out 267 gpm!! If it takes 5.2 million gallons to fill a 4 acre lake 4 feet it would take you 13.5 days to do it with that pump running continuously.

These are just quick rough calculations. Something just doesn't seem right though.

 

[Glowplug]

Then you are doing much more than 60 gallons per minute! That's between 130 and 136 gallons per minute! Some serious pumping!

That is if you're counting an average of 2.2 - 2.3 seconds to fill each bucket. I understood it was 2.2 - 2.3 sec for both. Then the GPM is about 260 to 270+ like I calculated.

 

[EddieWalker]

Sorry guys, I wasn't clear. I had two buckets, but couldn't control them and the hose, so I filled one bucket with my knees holding it up. Imagine a monkey with a hose and a bucket on a muddy sidehill and you get the idea. hahahaha

Does that mean I'm pumping 130 gallons per minute? Does that look about right on the pictures for a 3 inch line?

The lake is rising very nicely. I'm seeing it change every day, but it's too small of a change to really capture with pics. Little things like a mound of dirt that was sticking up in the middle is totally gone now. The outer edges of the water is starting to conform to the shape of the dam. The waves from the wind have some actual size to them!! hahahaha

Lots of things are going on and it's hard to not just sit there and watch it fill.

New math. I'm 8 feet down and it's 4.3 acres when full. Saying I don't get any rain and the pump runs 24/7 how long until it's full? Will I have a lake by Christmas? hahaha

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[Glowplug]

I dunno. I'm thinking for a 4 acre lake to fill 8 feet you'd have to have that pump runnin' 2 months.

 

[npaden]

Yeah, looks like 52 days if it was straight up and down for the 4.3 acres. But since your shoreline gradually goes up to 4.3 acres it shouldn't take quite that long. Maybe a month and a half!

Of course that doesn't account for any evaporation and assumes that your creek you are pulling the water from stays full.

I think you should have your lake by Christmas though!

 

[Defective]

looks like about a month of waiting to me.

 

[Glowplug]

What a cool Christmas present that would be . . . A NEW LAKE!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS EDDIE!!

 

[hilld]

Pump - $300
Hoses - $150
Gas Tank - $5
Gas - $300
New Lake - Priceless


Maybe you should make a new Mastercard commercial.

 

[Renze]

Pump - $300
Hoses - $150
Gas Tank - $5
Gas - $300
New Lake - Priceless


Maybe you should make a new Mastercard commercial.

hmmm... dont tell about the rest of the bill when doing a Mastercard commercial:

dozer - $ 20.000
dozer head rebuild - $ 500
fuel to run dozer every weekend 1.5 year - $ 2000
pipes, culverts, concrete, valves - $ 2000
dump truck - $ 2500
dump truck new engine: - $ 1000

1500 hrs of weekend NOT spent with wife or friends - priceless !

just kidding

 

[EddieWalker]

Renze,

If you put a zero behind a few of those numbers, you'd be allot closer!!!

Eddie

 

[California]

Does that mean I'm pumping 130 gallons per minute?

Yes.

I am impressed! To get that much volume with the lift and length of run you have, that is an excellent pump/engine set.

New math. I'm 8 feet down and it's 4.3 acres when full. Saying I don't get any rain and the pump runs 24/7 how long until it's full?

Eddie, looking at the surface area already filled, what percentage is the present surface area compared to the final filled area? This is essentially a shallow cone. If the surface has to double in area and then double again, for example, that helps define the volume you need to fill.

Also, you might want to run tests with the outlet of your hose 4 and then 8 ft higher in elevation than the present outlet, and measure the seconds per bucket at those elevations. I expect that increased elevation will reduce the hose output substantially, and you need to consider that in calculating the time-to-fill.

I have a little cut-n-try experience with pumps but I'll leave it to the engineers here to run the math, to fill that thing. That's way over my head considering both the volume of a cone, and the reduction in pump output proportional to increasing lift.

 

[slowzuki]

I agree with Charlie, I missed a conversion on the acres. I've got 6.81 hours pers inch using a slightly different conversion factor.

I get a different value.
6.86 hrs per inch at 4 acres pumping at 264gpm.
27,154 gallons per inch acre x 4 acres = 108,616 gallons on 4 acres.
divided by 264gpm = 411 minutes divided by 60 minutes/hr = 6.86 hrs per inch.

 

[turbo36]

What turbo36 says is VERY accurate. It COULD make a significant difference depending on how much water you are trying to push through the hose.

But in your situation it doesn't look like it would make much difference. Assuming 60 gallons per minute you have less than 1 foot of head pressure in friction loss pushing it through a 3" hose. Here is a friction loss chart for 100' of smooth PVC pipe - Friction Loss Flow chart - FAMOUS PLUMBING SUPPLY I'm sure the friction is more in a hose than PVC pipe, but if you make sure the hose is as straight as possible with no bends, etc. I doubt if it is going to make a lot of difference.

Now if you were going to be pushing 250 gallons per minute through a 3" hose it would make a tremendous difference.

Thanks for keeping us updated on your project, it is nice to see the lake filling up!

I have two pumps; a 5.5hp rated at 197 gal/min and a 8hp rated at 319 gal/min, when I first tried them out I could not get any where near that output with 100' of discharge hose attached so I called a fellow I know that does pump design and he said that when they rate the pump it is with no hose attached so essentially there is no back pressure and the slip loss is very little, as the output is restricted the slip loss increases to a point of shutting off the flow completely. He told me the best way to check the flow was to get an open 55 gal drum and compare the difference in filling time between no hose, 50' hose and 100' hose. Wow, what a shocker, there was 30-50% difference depending how high I had the barrel from the pump and how high the pump was from the water source.
The best performance I got was when I got the pump intake as close to water level as I could and cut the discharge line as short as possible.

 

[Renze]

Renze,

If you put a zero behind a few of those numbers, you'd be allot closer!!!

Eddie

You know what they say, Eddie: If its for hobby, then its no problem if it costs some...

 

[Regal]

Several years ago, I saw a crew filling a new sewer lagoon using a pump that looked like a grain auger. It was driven off PTO of tractor and drew the water out of creek and pushed it about 1000 ft through 6" or 8" aluminum pipe with near 20 foot of lift. They filled that 3 cell lagoon to what ever leavel the engineers spected in only a day and night or so. What type of pump would that be called and could they be easy to build?

 

[npaden]

There are several PTO driven water pumps out there.

Here's a site - Kifco Water-Reels®, PTO Water Pumps

 

[Defective]

Several years ago, I saw a crew filling a new sewer lagoon using a pump that looked like a grain auger. It was driven off PTO of tractor and drew the water out of creek and pushed it about 1000 ft through 6" or 8" aluminum pipe with near 20 foot of lift. They filled that 3 cell lagoon to what ever leavel the engineers spected in only a day and night or so. What type of pump would that be called and could they be easy to build?

That would be an "Archimedes Screw" pump.

 

[john_bud]

Thanks everyone for the encouragment and advice. This is the biggest thing I've ever built, and hopefully, it will remain that way. hahaha

UPS delivered my hose today, so I replaced my leaking home made line and put in the good one.

Than I put down two five gallon buckets and tried to time how long they take to fill up. This really is a two man job, maybe three. The buckets don't want to stay put or upright when filling on the side of the dam. I solved that by standing behind the bucket and using my shins to keep it in place.

Then I couldn't get the stop watch started and work the hose at the same time. It's an old casio watch that I had in my hunting gear. I put it on my wrist and started the stop watch. Than when I hit ten seconds, I put the hose in the bucket.

All my times seem to be from 2.2 seconds to 2.3+ seconds. Those little numbers in the hundreds are just too fast to read!!!!

These two pics show the flow as it's coming out the end of the hose.

Thanks,
Eddie

Eddie,

Good result! At that rate you should have a full pond by Christmas. Nice

Say, from being there does the new hose output seem to be greater than the old cobbled setup? The pictures seem to be that way, but as you can tell from my last prognostication, I don't have the "eye" for water measurement!!!

jb

 

[EddieWalker]

John,

I think the new hose is putting out more water, but I have no idea how much. There was that leak in my home made attempt to use that 4 inch corregated pipe that cut down on how much water I was putting in there too. Now it's nice and dry all the way to the outlet. I like that!!!

We were gone all weekend, and it wasn't running when I got back last night. I expected it to be out of gas and not running, but when I tried to put fuel into the tank, it only took a few gallons. It fired right up and ran all night, so I'm not sure why it died on me. This is the second time that's happened without any reason why.

Anybody know why the pump would stop running?

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[Nat]

I bet it just got tired Eddie.
I biught an old P & H crane one time and hired a wrecker to pick it up for me. The driver said he didn't realize it was that far to tow it or he wouldn't have taken the job. I asked why, was the wrecker going to get tired? Later, Nat