CUT vs CTL

[Industrial Toys]

If I were in the market for a CTL, I would research the market very carefully test driving them all. Apparently there are HUGE differences in the ride and operator comfort between brands.

It would be a shame to spend that kind of money and end up with a machine you hate to operate. I test drove some skid steers with Deutze or Perkins engines that gave me a splitting headache in ten minutes that lasted for the rest of the day!

 

[TSO]

They're not lighter Duty than other CTL's. Just at the undercarriage, roller system, tracks, will be torn up faster if you are on rocks, stumps, etc. They are built well, and reliable. They are standard quick attach like any other skid steer. Mine runs​ the same 3.3 liter 4 cylinder Caterpillar engine found in most cat skid steers. Same engine is also labeled as Perkins, but they are made by Mitsubishi. To my knowledge that is the same throughout the whole model line.

Parts should be no harder to find than any other brand, assuming you have a dealer nearby. Alternatively, you can order your parts straight from Trac loader parts. Net. There you can search through the full diagrams and get exact part numbers.

I don't know anything about the model you mentioned, other than I believe it is an older model.

 

[Zigblazer]

Thank you. You must have gotten my post before it disappeared. I'm down in Iowa now, and just fighting with this on a tablet.

I remember why I wasn't looking at the ASV. there aren't many for sale near me.

I was hoping that in a year or two I could sell the backhoe and get something better, but I really have a lot of dirt moving to do now and the backhoe isn't working. It digs great, but gets stuck instantly if I try to pick up a load with the loader.

Maybe if I find anew ASV for closers to 10k I could get one sooner. Maybe before I sell the backhoe.

 

[TSO]

I'm sure any CTL what do better than what you are using now. Did you watch that video above that I had posted, showing some of the advantages of the undercarriage system compared to some other track machines? There's actually a handful of videos on YouTube showing the ASV & Terex units going through some crazy wet areas.

 

[jcbGM]

If money was no object, two words - "tracked" "teleskid". Although not a bogey style undercarriage, you get the reach of a telehandler with the low ground pressure of a tracked machine. They're awesome (I'm a bit biased)

 

[Zigblazer]

I did watch the video. Very nice. Seeing that the roughest stuff I'll do is load my sandy gravel, the ASV suspension shouldn't be a problem. A tracked teleskid sounds like fun, but a tracked skid I think is going to work better for me, not to mention I wouldn't be able to afford one anyway.

I appreciate the help, and unless my needs change before I can get something, I believe that some form of tracked skid would work best for me. I'm not sure what I'll end up getting. I guess it will depend on what is available in my price range when I'm ready to buy. That ASV MD 2800 for sale now looks nice, but I don't know if I could come up with that much money right now.

 

[Zigblazer]

I should rephrase. The worst thing I would be dealing with is mud. I think the ultra low ground pressure of the ASV would be a good fit for me.

Biggest problem would be finding one in my price range. The rc-30 is too small, the rc-50 is almost too small and then the next larger machine I see available near me is the 80hp range, but they jump up over $30k. So unless I can jump on the 2800, I may be waitig a while.

 

[Zigblazer]

In doing more research I found that the Cat 2?7 series CTLs use the same ASV undercarriage and tracks as the 2800 and 70 series ASVs. Has anyone had any experience with them? I see they are heavier, have a much larger lift capacity, but do have a lower hydraulic flow. I don't have an ASV dealer near me, but do have a Cat dealer. The cats have higher contact pressure (because they weight more). But they also have an enclosed cab and I would assume parts would be easier to get.

I see two 277b units for sale in MN for less than $18k that are about 5 years newer than that ASV 2800. They both have almost double the hours and one needs tracks right away. But maybe that might be an option if I can't find an ASV I like.

 

[TSO]

The CAT models that end in "7" use the ASV system. CAT owned a chunk of ASV for a while. CAT got to use the ASV undercarriage, and ASV got the CAT joystick controls.

 

[TSO]

Here's one of the mud vids i was referring to...

Terex PT-80 in deep mud - YouTube

 

[Zigblazer]

I bought a cat 277b today. Looks to be in much better shape than I was expecting for the price. Hopefully I can get everything done this summer and sell the backhoe before I go broke. I also got a good deal on a rock & brush bucket with grapples for it. Only thing I found wrong with it is a sticky throttle. It does have the full ASV track system, complete with 18inch wide tracks that have 6.5 ft on the ground. 3.1psi of ground pressure.

 

[bdog]

Keep an eye on those ASV tracks. They are plastic and a lot of guys have problems with them. Depends what you run in I guess but rocks tear them up. There is a big price difference in the ASV and steel tracks. Cat abandoned them do to problems.

 

[TSO]

Keep an eye on those ASV tracks. They are plastic and a lot of guys have problems with them. Depends what you run in I guess but rocks tear them up. There is a big price difference in the ASV and steel tracks. Cat abandoned them do to problems.

That is not correct. CAT still uses them, same as ASV does. They are Kevlar reinforced and last longer, under proper conditions, than typical CTL tracks do.

Like already stated... Using them on rocks will tear them up faster than dirt.

 

[bdog]

I thought they had quit using them but maybe not. I have some friends with a lot of tracked machines and they had nothing but problems with the ASV undercarriage. They said it rode super smooth but didn't last. They switched to the steel models and problems went away. I have four rubber tracked machines all with steel and they are pretty darn reliable. I have another friend who has three ASV branded rubber tracked machines and they have served him well but he stays in dirt.

 

[TSO]

I thought they had quit using them but maybe not. I have some friends with a lot of tracked machines and they had nothing but problems with the ASV undercarriage. They said it rode super smooth but didn't last. They switched to the steel models and problems went away. I have four rubber tracked machines all with steel and they are pretty darn reliable. I have another friend who has three ASV branded rubber tracked machines and they have served him well but he stays in dirt.

Yes that's exactly why CAT offers two track models now... If it ends in "7" it's an ASV undercarriage, if it ends in "9" it's a steel undercarriage. For example, the 257 & 259... The ASV system is preferred for folks using it mainly in dirt and soft underfoot, low ground pressure conditions... The steel system (traditional CTL style) for cement, rock, construction site, etc... Conditions.

Right tool for right job...

 

[Zigblazer]

Thanks for the info. I did look at a lot o options. Other than the few rocks in my mostly sand gravel pit, mine shouldn't see any rock. But it will see a lot of mud and soft ground. I will keep a close eye on it. After this summer I doubt it will get 100 hrs a year. And I always take really good care of my equipment.

 

[Zigblazer]

Trouble already. Took it off the trailer Saturday and a minute later it died completely, no response from anything, trapping me inside. I went out the back window, found the ign fuse blown. After replacing it, a couple times, and moving harnesses around the engine, I finally got it going and into the shop. Found and repaired the rubbed wiring in the main engine harness. Took it out to pressure wash it. After I started it to take it back into the shop. Let it run a couple minutes, and started to pull it in and it died. This time electronics still worked, and it would crank, but not start. After much work, I got it back into the shop and will check it out tomorrow. Nothing goes as it should in my life.

 

[bdog]

Dang I hate to hear that and hope it was a fluke. In my experience people trade in heavy equipment either on a fixed schedule or when it starts to give problems. My backhoe can from a company that buys new ones every three years regardless as they like to keep a new fleet. I hope you didn't get someone's turd. I bought a used skid steer once and less than 75 hours later I had to replace the engine. I either buy new or something I know the history on.

 

[Zigblazer]

I assume that it was traded in for reasons other than problems. It was a construction company and they traded in three 277bs at the same time. From what I can tell they took very good care of them. Oil change every 200 hours, fixed every functionality problem that came up. Not any comfort problems, but I expect that.

 

[TSO]

I assume that it was traded in for reasons other than problems. It was a construction company and they traded in three 277bs at the same time. From what I can tell they took very good care of them. Oil change every 200 hours, fixed every functionality problem that came up. Not any comfort problems, but I expect that.

Fuel pump fuse or wiring? Can you hear the fuel pump making noise when you turn the key halfway?