Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Cutting / Groving / Siping R-4 for snow

[WALT]

After reading the many posts here, I decided to groove the R-4 tires on my L-39.

I recently moved to a new home in southern NH with a 800'+ paved flat driveway. My last home in NW CT was a steep 400" gravel drive.
Now I cannot use the forestry chains I had used on the rear, without damaging the pavement. The two 4" wet snows here were slippery on the stock R-4 tires. At 900 hrs., the tires still have most of the tread left.

I bought the Ideal tire groover with the #4 iron, and grooved the fronts at 1/4" depth. As I have a heated shop, it took about an hour a tire.
I marked the pattern with a silver paint marker first, then free handed the grooves. I hope to do the rears next week, with just a single bar as have others.

WALT

(my photos did not attach, will try again)

 

[dnw64]

I marked the pattern with a silver paint marker first, then free handed the grooves. I hope to do the rears next week, with just a single bar as have others.

I was hesitant to just free-hand the grooves, as my hands are not that steady. My handwriting is atrocious...

But after looking at all the posts I decided to give it a shot. Mine are certainly not "perfect" but I believe that they appear near commercial in quality apart from close observation*. In fact, the biggest problem I had was maintaining the proper angle to get a full depth cut, not the lateral alignment. I just eyeball centered it as I went along.

*and, appearance is not that important (to me), it's all about function.

 

[scottNH]

I have a Kubota L3200 with R4s, which don't have the fender clearance for chains. I have had some traction issues in sloppy slush and hard, slick ice. In fact I have ended up sliding off the driveway at least once each year! Usually it's the angled rear scraper that rudders me off the driveway, but I have also had trouble just getting up the hill at times.
This year I bought the Ideal grooving iron, and I also bought screw-in tire studs. But I have not grooved the tires or installed the studs yet.

My question is this - is it worth messing around with grooving and studs or should I just jump right to spacers and chains and get it over with?

My situation: I'm in southern NH with about a 1/4 mile dirt driveway to plow. I'm hardly ever on pavement unless I drive over to my neighbor's to help him out. The barn floor is concrete. Thanks in advance!

 

[Drewmon]

I知 right next door in Maine so I feel your pain. As for me, I did the tire siping method on my R4痴 with good results. I end up doing my whole gravel road and large crushed rock driveway (they both ice over) with my tractor, 40hp LS with a 7.5 plow on the front and a 76 blower on the back. I never used the tractor without the sipes, and with all the weight I haven稚 had any issues. If I were to do it over, I壇 prob use the tire studs. I dont feel comfortable putting the studs in after siping, not enough solid rubber sections. I say that, but I致e never had an issue with just the sipes. Best of luck with your choice. I do know the sipes help with mud too.

I have a Kubota L3200 with R4s, which don't have the fender clearance for chains. I have had some traction issues in sloppy slush and hard, slick ice. In fact I have ended up sliding off the driveway at least once each year! Usually it's the angled rear scraper that rudders me off the driveway, but I have also had trouble just getting up the hill at times.
This year I bought the Ideal grooving iron, and I also bought screw-in tire studs. But I have not grooved the tires or installed the studs yet.

My question is this - is it worth messing around with grooving and studs or should I just jump right to spacers and chains and get it over with?

My situation: I'm in southern NH with about a 1/4 mile dirt driveway to plow. I'm hardly ever on pavement unless I drive over to my neighbor's to help him out. The barn floor is concrete. Thanks in advance!

 

[dnw64]

You've got the studs and groover, I'd say go for both. It will not be as good as chains, but I can assure you it will be waaaay better than stock R4s. I bet you don't get "stuck" (meaning you need outside help to get out) once this year.

 

[Fallon]

I have a Kubota L3200 with R4s, which don't have the fender clearance for chains. I have had some traction issues in sloppy slush and hard, slick ice. In fact I have ended up sliding off the driveway at least once each year! Usually it's the angled rear scraper that rudders me off the driveway, but I have also had trouble just getting up the hill at times.
This year I bought the Ideal grooving iron, and I also bought screw-in tire studs. But I have not grooved the tires or installed the studs yet.

My question is this - is it worth messing around with grooving and studs or should I just jump right to spacers and chains and get it over with?

My situation: I'm in southern NH with about a 1/4 mile dirt driveway to plow. I'm hardly ever on pavement unless I drive over to my neighbor's to help him out. The barn floor is concrete. Thanks in advance!

I had a L3200 with R4s as well. I'm in Colorado in the Denver area. Decent snow that packs into tall drifts along with lots fo melting. I never ended up with wheel spacers or siping the tires. I did run chains on the fronts only which was enough. Not great, but enough.

I had 60" impliments which matched my 60" track (non-adjustable width R4s on the economy Ls). Wheel spacers would have added complications. Nothing I couldn't work around, but the lack of traction wasn't problematic enough for me to mess with it.

Siping or grooving will help, but if you are dealing with ice, you need chains or studs to dig in for traction.

 

[scottNH]

Thanks for the replies! I guess I should try grooving and studs since I have both ready to go. I'll try to groove in a way that leaves a good lug to put the studs in. Hopefully that will keep me on the driveway this year. And if not ... spacers and chains!
I still can't believe Kubota designed an otherwise very capable tractor that can't accept chains ... :confused3:

 

[dnw64]

I still can't believe Kubota designed an otherwise very capable tractor that can't accept chains ... :confused3:

Most tractors can take base chains. But if you want some really good ones (i.e. European style studded ones), you will need more room.

 

[Fallon]

Most tractors can take base chains. But if you want some really good ones (i.e. European style studded ones), you will need more room.

You cant fit any chains on the Kubota economy Ls with R4s. It doesnt matter how skinny they are. I'd wager even useless rubber chains put on tight would have a chance to snag the fender on the inside. The R1s are adjustable & presumably can be adjusted for clearance for chains. It's just the R4s thst are non-adjustable & about 1" from the inner fender. The only option is adding a couple inches of wheel spacers on either side. I believe Kubota actually sold some at one point, in addition to several aftermarket sources

The R4s on my new L4060 are adjustable width like all the Grands. I looked a while back & probably have clearance for chains, but I haven't bothered. I have (as yet unused) chains for the front & dont want to mess with some of the impliment widths again. I can fight that battle if it ever becomes worth fighting (and without wheel spacers, just fighting loaded tires).

 

[WALT]

Had to use the digital camera to get the photos to attach.

WALT

 

[Glrret]

One of the critical things to keep in mind when grooving your R4 tires is to not compromise the integrity of the lug to the point where you introduce the possibility of chunking . Grooving to close to the edges of the lug or multiple groves to close together will increase the chances of a lug chunking when operating on rocky or rough terrain.

This is the pattern I used on my 2555, the primary purpose to grooving the front ties to to help in preventing lateral movement when pushing a load forward. This pattern has increased my forward traction by about 50%. I still experience some lateral movement (side slipping) on slanted surfaces when there is a hard pack snow or ice base and the new load of heavy wet snow.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Since very little of those grooves are in contact with the surface, I have my doubts. A turf tire by comparison has many grooves contacting the surface. I would need to see identical tractors and tires, one grooved, one not, in identical surface conditions using some method of measuring adhesion before I took some percentage figure as the truth.

 

[Doofy]

Anyhoo...very artsy.

 

[dnw64]

Since very little of those grooves are in contact with the surface, I have my doubts. A turf tire by comparison has many grooves contacting the surface. I would need to see identical tractors and tires, one grooved, one not, in identical surface conditions using some method of measuring adhesion before I took some percentage figure as the truth.

What is truth?

 

[Industrial Toys]

There is such a thing called "Universal Truth". I would have to check if grooving tires is covered.

 

[dnw64]

There is such a thing called "Universal Truth". I would have to check if grooving tires is covered.

Look at Section 238.B, subpart 3-F-13.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Reminds me of a guy my Stepdad worked with. He would repair watches on the side. If the watch ran at all, the first time he got it, he would just put in on a shelf and return it a few days later, presumably charging for his service. Only, if he got it back again, did he open it up.

Just another Reality/Perception matter.

 

[Oaktree]

Since very little of those grooves are in contact with the surface, I have my doubts. A turf tire by comparison has many grooves contacting the surface. I would need to see identical tractors and tires, one grooved, one not, in identical surface conditions using some method of measuring adhesion before I took some percentage figure as the truth.

I've wondered the same thing myself. Turf tires are bad enough on wet grass, can only imagine how bad they'd be in snow.

Look at Section 238.B, subpart 3-F-13.

Huh. That page seems to be missing in my copy.

 

[dnw64]

I've wondered the same thing myself. Turf tires are bad enough on wet grass, can only imagine how bad they'd be in snow.

I've never done a side-by-side, but I have found the turf tires on my GC2300 to be excellent in snow, and have heard from multiple sources that turfs (out of the 3-4 "typical" tractor tire types) are far superior to the others in snow. In fact, I believe that Industrial Toys was reinforcing that when he said that he was leery of the little bit of grooving added to R4s making much difference, because they would not be as groovy as the turf tires.

Huh. That page seems to be missing in my copy.

They did update it in the last 10 years or so (kind of ironic, since they claim it's "universal" truth).

 

[kennyd]

Turf tires are indeed great in the snow.