Deere 2520 & CMI Dump Trailer

[sneaky]

Just bought a CMI tandem trailer. Have had it welded in places where the production welds were limited. Now I am seeking a cylinder and control for the tractor. I don't know much about cylinder specifics and it seems the links from past discussion on the board don't work well.

The 2520 has a power beyond kit and it runs a Rankin log splitter just fine. The rating for the GPM is 10.5 and the implement 5 with a PSI of 2418. The Deere power beyond kit sort of loops in from the top of the back right fender of the tractor. I'd like to put a control valve there so I can operate the dump while seated on the tractor.

Any ideas on cylinder and control valve would be very welcome.

 

[kennyd]

Welcome to TBN

The CMI wagon where discussed a LOT here on TBN a few years ago-not much mention of the lately though. Try a search for some great reading about mods some made to them.

IIRC a 4x24" cylinder is used for them, similar to a logsplitter cylinder.

You can certainly plumb a valve into that loop, do you just want one to operate the wagon, or do you want extra spools and have it permanently mounted?

 

[sneaky]

Thanks for the response, kennyd. I've trolled the forum for the mods. Found some good info, too. A lot of the links are broken.

Anyway, I am learning.... But, I am figuring it out.

I'd like to plumb into the Deere PB loop and mount a control valve near the PB port.

I guess I have simple questions like whether a SA cylinder will suffice and if a control valve like the RD4100 Hydraulic Monoblock Directional Control Valves will work.

Question regarding the PB plumbing option for the RD4100 valve, is it necessary if plumbed into the current PB loop?

Thank you!

 

[kennyd]

That RD valve is HUGE, so consider that in your decision. There are more compact valves available, look at the Surplus Center.

As to the PB...there is no readily available return-to-tank line on the smaller JD's, so using the non-PB open center valve will work, although some will post in this thread that the valve will blow up-But mine is working fine as well as MANY others plumbed this way. It's the same as a logsplitter or backhoe plumbed in without PB.

There are quite a few threads also on adding remote valves to 2520's...

 

[sneaky]

Been looking at all of the 2520 valve control implementations on the site. They look really good. Yes, this situation is no different than the Rainkin log splitter I have whereby the control valve is on the log splitter instead of the tractor.

Question though with the sizing statement you made. When you mean HUGE do you mean the size of the control or the capacity?

Looking at Prince's web site and Surplus Center, there are seemingly hidden pages and not all product available is advertised.

So, a bit challenging to find all options. For example, an Eaton 5 GPM 2 spool valve does not appear in the Control Valve section of Surplus Center. It seems like this unit in a single spool format would work great.

Thoughts?

 

[kennyd]

Been looking at all of the 2520 valve control implementations on the site. They look really good. Yes, this situation is no different than the Rainkin log splitter I have whereby the control valve is on the log splitter instead of the tractor.

Question though with the sizing statement you made. When you mean HUGE do you mean the size of the control or the capacity?

Looking at Prince's web site and Surplus Center, there are seemingly hidden pages and not all product available is advertised.

So, a bit challenging to find all options. For example, an Eaton 5 GPM 2 spool valve does not appear in the Control Valve section of Surplus Center. It seems like this unit in a single spool format would work great.

Thoughts?

Yes, I meant physically HUGE-as in real estate required to mount it.

9-4500 is the single spool valve, They are listed in the catalog-but must be out of stock now. They may have stopped carrying it due to slow sales-most people opt for a 2 or 3 spool valve.

If you just want a cheap valve to operate your trailer, you can opt for a simple Prince valve like the 9-6764.

 

[sneaky]

Okay, thanks!

The RD4100 is 6.8" long (w/o handle) x 4.4" wide. The 2 SPOOL 5 GPM EATON CESSNA 30922 is 6.75" (assume w/o handle) x 4.75" wide. Certainly much more compact! Thanks for making me think.

I read a statement you mentioned in a different thread describing your neat looking implementation. Is this the same Eaton valve you would have used if you could do it over again?

On the "wiring" side, the PB sleeve appears available for the Eaton (looks like it is), then the existing Deere PB would connect into the PB sleeve (would there be two for in/out?) and the dump cylinder into one of the spool in/out, correct?

 

[kennyd]

Okay, thanks!

The RD4100 is 6.8" long (w/o handle) x 4.4" wide. The 2 SPOOL 5 GPM EATON CESSNA 30922 is 6.75" (assume w/o handle) x 4.75" wide. Certainly much more compact! Thanks for making me think.

No problem

I read a statement you mentioned in a different thread describing your neat looking implementation. Is this the same Eaton valve you would have used if you could do it over again?

Yes. The valve I used did not come with handles so I had to make my own and that was a big PITA! For the velve dollars I save it was not worth the extra effort.

On the "wiring" side, the PB sleeve appears available for the Eaton (looks like it is), then the existing Deere PB would connect into the PB sleeve (would there be two for in/out?) and the dump cylinder into one of the spool in/out, correct?

If you use the PB plug, you will have to find a place to connect the OUT port to the tank for a low pressure return...I am not sure there is a easy way to do that.

Without the PB plug (like I did and the others with the 2520's) you will just use the IN and OUT ports.

Dump cylinder connects to the "work" ports on the valve.

 

[sneaky]

Okay, thanks! Having read though a lot of the discussions on PB and such, I am curious what the repercussions are to not use the PB adapter for the Eaton control valve. Seems like little to nothing.

Also, once I get everything installed, I'll upload pictures and other info. The trailer has been stiffened a bit, but only by adding more welds as the production welds were pretty sparse.

 

[kennyd]

Re-read post #4...

Basically there is pressure created on the OUT line when the downstream valve is actuated that "could" cause the valve to fail.

 

[sneaky]

Understood. So, if I wanted to go with the PB for the Eaton control valve would I buy just one sleeve for the OUT port?

Also, for this application, do you feel this cylinder would work well?

 

[kennyd]

Understood. So, if I wanted to go with the PB for the Eaton control valve would I buy just one sleeve for the OUT port?

Also, for this application, do you feel this cylinder would work well?

Only one PB sleeve is needed per valve, and it does not go in the OUT port-but rather the PB port.

The OUT port is connected no matter what, without the PB plug it feeds the next valve in series (the 3PH in your case). With the PB plug it just dump waste out from the cylinders to the tank, and the PB port now feeds the next valve in the series.

That cylinder would work but I think a 4x24 would be better for the dump trailer.

 

[J_J]

Re-read post #4...

Basically there is pressure created on the OUT line when the downstream valve is actuated that "could" cause the valve to fail.

Seems like that is what I said about the pressure on the tank outlet, and you disagreed.

Are you contradicting yourself about the pressure on the tank outlet port on the valve, as in post # 4. I have called the engineers at Prince, and also talked to several hyd technicians, and they all say the same thing. A lot of the valves I have looked at, give the max presure on the outlet port of the valve, and it is usually around 300 to 700 psi.

Although I understand that one can hook up all kinds of things, and they can work, but is not the accepted way to use the outlet port for down stream work. I know you have done it and it works for you, and may last forever. The only reference that I know of, is that the outlet port/tank port should go to tank, with little to no back pressure.

http://www.hydraulic-supply.com/pdf/328.pdf

 

[kennyd]

Seems like that is what I said about the pressure on the tank outlet, and you disagreed.

Are you contradicting yourself about the pressure on the tank outlet port on the valve, as in post # 4. I have called the engineers at Prince, and also talked to several hyd technicians, and they all say the same thing. A lot of the valves I have looked at, give the max presure on the outlet port of the valve, and it is usually around 300 to 700 psi.

Although I understand that one can hook up all kinds of things, and they can work, but is not the accepted way to use the outlet port for down stream work. I know you have done it and it works for you, and may last forever. The only reference that I know of, is that the outlet port/tank port should go to tank, with little to no back pressure.

http://www.hydraulic-supply.com/pdf/328.pdf

Like I said before...where are all the threads about blown up valves on 3PH logsplitters and backhoes that are plumbed without PB? Find me one-just one please.

I will not debate you on this.

 

[sneaky]

I am kind of slow with this topic, but slowly I get there. By using the calculator I notice that the 3" bore at 2500 PSI produces ~ 17k lbs of push force. Don't know if this trailer will ever dump more that 3,000 lbs. The 4" bore cylinder at 2500 PSI is significantly more.

 

[kennyd]

I am kind of slow with this topic, but slowly I get there. By using the calculator I notice that the 3" bore at 2500 PSI produces ~ 17k lbs of push force. Don't know if this trailer will ever dump more that 3,000 lbs. The 4" bore cylinder at 2500 PSI is significantly more.

Baum Hydraulics has calculators to figure the push/pull at a angle if you are curious.

The 4x24" tie rod cylinders can usually be found for less money because they are so popular (used on logsplitters).

 

[sneaky]

The OUT port is connected no matter what, without the PB plug it feeds the next valve in series (the 3PH in your case). With the PB plug it just dump waste out from the cylinders to the tank, and the PB port now feeds the next valve in the series.

So, if using the PB port, wouldn't it feed the 3PH given the Deere PB does not go back to the tank? Since the next valve is the 3PH, isn't it what the PB port connects to? If not, what is the purpose of the OUT port if I cannot go directly to the tank?

 

[J_J]

All the tank ports need to go to tank.

 

[kennyd]

So, if using the PB port, wouldn't it feed the 3PH given the Deere PB does not go back to the tank? Since the next valve is the 3PH, isn't it what the PB port connects to? If not, what is the purpose of the OUT port if I cannot go directly to the tank?

IF you are using a PB equipped valve, then the PB port is indeed connected to the 3PH, and the OUT line connects to the tank as it carries the "waste" oil form the work ports.

IF you are NOT using a PB equipped valve, the PB port is NOT used-only the IN and OUT ports are used. This is the way me and others have done.

I am not sure how I can explain it better?

Here are three examples:

Mine

Jim's

Brad's

 

[sneaky]

No worries, it is clear.

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I've looked at the other posts, and indeed the use of the PB port on a control valve has been unused. Ironically, the text on the Deere PB port states that it only requires an open center valve to use. Interestingly enough, my log splitter valve did develop a leak at one point. Don't know if that is related to any of this or not.

I would seem that if one were to employ the PB port in the Eaton valve that there would be on line going IN another to the tank via OUT and another to the 3PH via the PB port. OR just forgo the PB port all together.

I hope to have this all together this weekend. :thumbsup: