Diesel Fuel & Storage Questions

KiotiJohn · Aug 25, 2004

( Is it legal to use the HHO for your tractor? If so, how do you get it out of the tank?)
It's quite legal, and any pump designed for fuels, stuck into the feed hole should work just fine.
TSC and Harbor Freight both sell hand pumps that work pretty well. They often have adjustable lengths to go deep, or could be used in conjunction with a hose. John

timb · Aug 25, 2004

Varmintmist - that begs the question if it's 'legal' to burn HHO in PA? If even off-road diesel has a tax - then you are avoiding that tax by using another fuel. Sounds like PA has some special tax-free dispension that would only be intended for home heating use.

Between possible legalities in PA, the differences or no differences in mix of HHO vs. offroad / using relatively 'old' fuel from the furnace tanks compared to fresh from the supplier / and cetane ratings, I keep going back and forth on this question. Since I have two 275 gallon tanks in a side basement room (old coal room) for the furnace it surely would be easier to tap them for the tractor than shlepping cans around.

Funny folks mention oil appliances in a 'past tense' manner in other places. Around here I'd guess that 9 out of 10 rural homes are oil heat (whether boiler or forced-air).

86turbodsl · Aug 25, 2004

The gas industry has done an extremely good job selling their product over oil. In this area, almost nobody uses oil anymore. I sure got some raised eyebrows when I put an oil boiler in my shop. But it makes perfect sense, two 275 gallon tanks on a pad outside the shop, feeding HHO into my tractors as well. It works really slick. And I don't have to run to the corner store to pay inflated prices for diesel fuel.

mwood · Aug 25, 2004

(It's quite legal, and any pump designed for fuels, stuck into the feed hole should work just fine.
TSC and Harbor Freight both sell hand pumps that work pretty well.) 

I wondered about that! That's great news. Much cheeper to buy that than the regular stuff sold at the gas station. Plus... it's then done on the budget plan for my fuel oil bill!!!

Now for the real problem... I've got two 275 gallon tanks in my basement furnace room which power both the furnace and the hot water heater. The tube coming in from the outside is curved at a few 90 degree bends so I couldn't pump it out of there. I'm not sure if there is any other way into the tank than these pipes, and if there is only one way out of the tanks (into the burners) then what do I do? Drill a hole?!?!?!? This could get interesting, but at $0.50 cheeper a gallon, I think i'll have to find a way! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Also, what do I have to add to it to keep my tractor happy in the winter?

KiotiJohn · Aug 25, 2004

Check out this FAQ on diesel fuels. There's a part there that says that sulfur is gone from diesel fuel, but I think they're referring more to the reduced sulfur content of on-road diesel. As for how to get into your tank if you can't go down the existing pipe, I'm not sure. I don't use oil for heat and haven't for over 20 years. I don't know if there is any other access point on those tanks, but look them over to see if that's possible. Even with 90 degree turns you may be able to get a hose down in there and connect that to a hand pump or electrical pump. You may have a time working it in, but I think it's possible. You might consider changing out the pipes if it's not to involved. John

Junkman · Aug 25, 2004

Check the top of your tank. There should be the fill and the vent pipes. There should also be at least one or more additional bungs that you can use. Just remove the plug and buy a bushing to match up to the pump that you are going to use.

KiotiJohn · Aug 26, 2004

Thanks for helping out there Junkman, I should have remembered that you have good experience with these tanks. John

mwood · Aug 26, 2004

Thanks! I'll look into that when I get the chance. Oh ya. The tanks are also framed in and covered with laminated plywood to keep them out of site. Been meaning to take it off to clean. I guess needing to look in there will prompt this action and make the wife happy too!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Varmintmist · Aug 26, 2004

( that begs the question if it's 'legal' to burn HHO in PA? If even off-road diesel has a tax - then you are avoiding that tax by using another fuel.)

Ya mean Fast Eddie might get mad at me for keeping about an extra 2 bucks a year?? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Well, he probably would, since he has more time to think now that he has to slow down to something near the speed limit.

I asked when I was getting the tank and the supplier said nothing about it. So I went with it. Most likely it is a surcharge, but the fuel is 95% for heating. If you fill up once a week or two in the summer and maybe once a month in the winter, you really dont burn that much in the tractor. I wouldnt run a business off of HHO, but for what I use.....

Mwood, I got my hand crank pump for 45 bucks at TSC. It may not work for you without a lot of shade tree plumbing since you dont have access to the tank outside. But somewhere, someone makes one.

Soundguy · Aug 29, 2004

( There should be the fill and the vent pipes. There should also be at least one or more additional bungs that you can use. )

I agree.. there should be a vent. Also.. if you use a bottom bung.. att in a shutoff valve, and also a 't' with a drain petcock. Never know how much water might be pooled in the bottom of those large tanks. This will give you the option of draining that water off.. and then let you open the other valve to get the fuel out to your pump.

Soundguy