Diesel Generator or PTO Generator?

[Olympus]

I've backfed into my panel at my last house. It's just me and my wife and I gave her a good lecture about the panel and she said she'd never touch the panel. It's not ideal, but as long as I'm the only one touching stuff, I felt safe.

I'm thinking big enough to run our a/c in the house.

 

[Soundguy]

Ok.. so lets boil this down. You bought a tractor to work with. It reaches it's rated hp at or very near the engine speed needed for 540 pto speed ( by design )... and.. you are AFRAID to use your tractor as it was designed.

You do realize the tractor does not know if it is mowing ( 540 pto rpm ) for 7 hours.. or turning a pto genset for 7 hours.

It's all pto rpm and laod. Your machine was DESIGNED to run at rated hp for extended intervals. Yor car? not so much... it is designed to make hp to get you on the freeway, and then back off for travel. if you ran your car floored for extended times.. it wouldn't last. Luckilly.. the people that built your tractor designed it to make it's hp on a continous basis.

No.. i wouldn't strap myself down to a small dedicated engine 6500w genset. if you want to run your house.... your machine is more suited to a 10-12k genset .

All that said.. if you are afraid to run your tractor.. I suggest selling it, buying a lawnmower and a dedicated larger genset for the house with the money.

( you do realize those dedicated gensets run for extended intervalvs makeing the same hp your tractgor engine would.. right? and you somehow think it's fine for those engine to run but not your tractor? which.. IMHO.. likely has a better engine than the whizz-bangs they stick you with on lawnmowers and gensets anyway.

I'm trying to decide whether I need a good generator or not. I have a portable gas genny but it's loud and not big enough to run my whole home. I also have been moving away from gas and towards diesel. I now keep a 40 gallon barrel of diesel at all time. So a diesel genny makes more sense.

My question is whether I should get a PTO genny and use my tractor to power it or just get a complete portable diesel unit with engine and genny both. The PTO I'm looking at is 7200 watts rated and it's $900. The complete unit is 6500 watts rated for $1150.

I have two concerns with the PTO. My tractor is 23hp and for 540rpm that would require running at almost full throttle. I'm worried about that being hard on the tractor engine for extended periods line 5 to 7 hours at a time. My next concern is my tractor is brand new and I don't want to rack up lots of hours and wear my tractor out quickly.

My concern for the complete unit is whether 6500 watts will be enough for my whole home and also the additional worry about another engine to regularly maintain. I keep my tractor ready at all times and it always fires right up. I don't know if the complete unit would be the same.

Any advice would be appreciated. Been at the house 2 years and never had a power failure more than a couple hours, that's why I'm leaning toward the PTO since it's higher wattage and lower price and the need for usage may be little. We have buried utilities.

 

[Notforhire]

It's not ideal, but as long as I'm the only one touching stuff, I felt safe.

I'm glad you feel safe. How safe do you think the guys feel that are trying to restore your power?

Bill

 

[Olympus]

I think my issue is that I baby my tractor. It's brand new and has 40 hours right now. When I mow with it, it's running at 540rpms for about 2 to 3 hours at a time only. I only have 6 acres. If I had an older tractor I probably wouldn't have a care in the world. It's just the fact that I bought my first brand new tractor in my life and I certainly don't want to hurt it or wear it out quick. It needs to last me a long time.

 

[Soundguy]

Do you really need to power the entire house during an extended emergency outage?

That's a big issue. Most people don't understand that you don't need full 24/7 power, whole house in a power outtage. and in case of emergency or mass destruction.. you are better off NOT doing that, so you can ration your fuel. Here in florida in 04 and 05 when the bad bad bad hurricane season hit. many areas had no power for 2 weeks. that meant no fuel.. that meant you powered up the genny every 4 hours and ran the reefers for an hour, pumped up water for the well, perhaps reheated some water for a shower, and cook some food, listen to news.. then shut back down to conserve fuel. Also have to practice good resource management. Don't stand there with fridge open for 10m deciding what you want to eat. A reefer that is powered up an hour ever 4 hours will be fine untill it gets empty.

At least in my area.. the average person wouldn't last till the 'end of the week as we know it. let alone longer. No much mismanagement of resources. waste.. etc. You see some people with gennies going 24/7

 

[Soundguy]

I think my issue is that I baby my tractor. It's brand new and has 40 hours right now. When I mow with it, it's running at 540rpms for about 2 to 3 hours at a time only. I only have 6 acres. If I had an older tractor I probably wouldn't have a care in the world. It's just the fact that I bought my first brand new tractor in my life and I certainly don't want to hurt it or wear it out quick. It needs to last me a long time.

running it within it's specs should not hurt it or wear it out. That machine won't know the differenc ein 3 hours of mowing or 3 hours of making power.

No reason you need 24/7 power generation. an hour or so at a time, spaced out by a few hours is good resource management during an outtage and possible fuel shortage.

Are you afraid to drive your car on trips of mor ethan a few hours? ( you know.. that will eventually wear it out.. right? )

 

[EddieWalker]

For what it costs and how long you will need it, I went with a small Honda gas generator. It's only good for 13 amps, but it's quiet, uses just a little bit of gas and it's very reliable. When I lose power, it can be for a couple of hours or several days. All I really need power for is to turn on the lights and the TV. I heat with a stove so the house is warm and I can heat up water for bathing. It's kind of like camping.

I always have something attached to my tractor and I would hate to have to deal with removing an implement every time I needed to use my generator. I like portable and easy to put away.

Eddie

 

[Olympus]

I wouldn't be running 24/7 either. I don't live in an area that will flood. I'm wanting to power the a/c because I've been out for about a week in the heat of the summer and it was miserable in the house. I'd like to be able to cool the house off at night if that happened again.

 

[Threepoint]

I'm glad you feel safe. How safe do you think the guys feel that are trying to restore your power?

Bill

Amen. This is the big safety problem. The guys and gals that are out getting the power back on at all hours of the day and night are already doing dangerous work. They don't need to worry about electrocution from gensets jury-rigged to backfeed the house and barn wiring.

 

[prosperity]

I've pondered the same question and did lots of research. I always have lots of diesel available here - depending on the time of year anywhere between 500 and 1000 gallons (heating fuel tank). I don't keep gas around for anything since I don't need it and hate that it doesn't store well. Also as said above, if you need gas in an extended power outage you probably won't be able to get any.

I went the alternative route - no generator at all. We have a spring overflow that is 10' from the front porch - easy enough to dip 5 gallon buckets and have all the water we need. We now heat with an oil furnace, but still have our wood stove that has heated our whole house for many years. I make sure I keep at least 2 full cord of firewood in the wood shed.

We have an electric stove for cooking - bought a Coleman 2 burner propane stove for cooking and heating water. For lights in the winter, I have a couple Aladdin kerosene lamps.

Our power goes out frequently during bad storms but normally not longer than 10-12 hours. I have heat, water and can cook and see - that's all I need. I don't understand the folks who have mentioned that they have to have TV - why? Read a book!

 

[grsthegreat]

i install lots of whole house generators...doing 2 this week alone. You need to do some load calcs.
1. are all major appliances gas or electric
2. is there a well or sewer pump
3. square footage of house and lighting load
4. can you easily isolate the heavy use loads
5. can you easily install a transfer switch.

all this needs to be taken into count in determining generator size

personally, i wouldnt use as tractor mounted generator cause every time power has failed at my place, its been in the dead of winter and ive needed the tractor for other stuff...like snow removal


oh, and my house has a whole house generator system and it gets used more times than i like to think. We seem to lose power for as long a 1-2 days several times a year. I actually went ahead and installed a manual transfer switch in my shop with a 30 amp exterior plug cause the last time i couldnt open my rollup door for 3 days except manually...and that sucked. Also, my air compressor went dry,and had to take trailer to service station to air up tire. I rely on my equipment too much to be left without power.

My current backup system will only power the house. It doesnt have enough power for the other 2 buildings attached to the same power source, and doesnt link to the basement...which wasnt completed when system was installed.

As i am now a Generac dealer and installer, my next plan is to install a quiet source 22KW unit... or might possibly drop to the new 22KW air cooled unit with automatic 200 amp transfer switch. This unit would power entire house AND the barn. Last major power outage my horse water troughs froze and it was a pain in the butt to fix the damage.

but i never have the time to work on my own stuff anymore.

 

[Olympus]

i install lots of whole house generators...doing 2 this week alone. You need to do some load calcs.
1. are all major appliances gas or electric
2. is there a well or sewer pump
3. square footage of house and lighting load
4. can you easily isolate the heavy use loads
5. can you easily install a transfer switch.

all this needs to be taken into count in determining generator size

personally, i wouldnt use as tractor mounted generator cause every time power has failed at my place, its been in the dead of winter and ive needed the tractor for other stuff...like snow removal

Good points. My house is mostly gas. The only appliances that electric are two reefers, dishwasher, and washer/dryer. We have gas heat and also a wood stove. We are on a well, but it's not a private well. It's communal. No sewer pump, we have septic system. Square footage is about 2000ish. I can easily isolate large circuits. And I can easily install a transfer switch.

I have a front bucket on my tractor that I could use to push snow if necessary. But again, it takes me all of 5 minutes to unhook and reattach a 3pt implement.

 

[Soundguy]

I have a front bucket on my tractor that I could use to push snow if necessary. But again, it takes me all of 5 minutes to unhook and reattach a 3pt implement.

I know many times the argument against pto gen use is it ties up your tractor.

Living in hurricane central, I can honestly say i never needed to be on my tractor doing something during power making times.. and I have multiple tractors. IE. I was never making power AND doing something else.

Unless someone is running power for a life support machine ( O2.. etc.. ).. then you can shut down your genny for 10 minutes if you just have to push that tree off your flower bed

 

[tcartwri]

I second the opinion that starting a diesel genset during the most likely time of need ( winter ) could be a major bear.

 

[stonypass]

I live in MO as well and usually when we lose power its only for a short time (20min to a few hours) but several years ago we had a bad ice storm that caused power outages for large portions of several counties. It was out for a week at my house, and some areas more like three weeks. You couldn't buy batteries much less a generator, and many gas stations couldn't pump fuel.

My thought was to have a generator large enough to run the well pump (5kw to start it according to our well guy), wash and dry clothes (electric dryer) shower, keep the fridge going etc. We have wood heat so for me I'd only run it no more than 5-6hrs per day total.

I bought a used 12/15KW PTO generator with drive shaft and 220v/50a cord, and mounted it on a 3pt carry all for a total of about $900. I've tested it on everything in the house including a 4Ton AC unit and it will run it all, just not at the same time. I also keep about 50 gallons of diesel in the barn with a 12V pump I run from the tractor or truck battery, this is my summer mowing fuel and if needed fuel to power the generator. I can store up to 150 gal if needed.

Your 23hp tractor will run a generator this large (if that's PTOhp), look at this model it's what I have and produces good stable power. I like my PTO setup because its plenty of power, no extra engine to maintain and since I use the tractor on a regular basis I know it will start in any weather. Every fall I power the house with it for a couple of hours and know its ready if needed.

On your concerns:
Tractors are made to run many hours continuously under heavy loads like mowing, and generating power will likely be an easier task since the load is usually less than what the generator is capable of anyway. It is nice to have reserve power for peaks however.

On wearing your tractor out: If I lost power for 7 days and ran the generator 6 hrs per day I'd put 42hrs on the tractor. With good maintenance tractors will run for thousands of hours, mine was built in 1997 and currently has about 950hrs on it. I have zero worries about wearing it out while generating power.

On tying up the tractor while generating power: I can plow my 1/8 of a mile drive and circle in a couple of hours or use it to move downed trees or other debris, and generate power when I'm done. I have these on my lift arms and can unhook from the generator and hook up to the blade in a few minutes each. Not an issue for me, but your needs may be different.

If you want something your wife can run by pushing a button get a whole house standby generator. For me however, I wouldn't even think about generating power until its been out for hours, appears like its not coming back for hours longer and we actually need to do something that requires it.

Hope this helps and good luck

 

[Olympus]

Thanks stony. That is what I have been thinking about lately. That's a good point about the hours. I guess it's really not that many hours.

 

[daybreak1998]

Howdy,
PTO generators will be able to give you the most bang for the buck. You have invested in a diesel tractor. You can baby it by using it. Diesel engines are made for long regular rpm's. Tractor engines will run more hours than you will use it. My oldest tractor is a 93 Deere with 6358 hours in it. I know the battery is good, oil is changed, and the connection is easy enough.

Whichever way you go, I hope you make the connection safely.
generator-transfer-switch-connection-choices

 

[Soundguy]

On wearing your tractor out: If I lost power for 7 days and ran the generator 6 hrs per day I'd put 42hrs on the tractor. With good maintenance tractors will run for thousands of hours, mine was built in 1997 and currently has about 950hrs on it. I have zero worries about wearing it out while generating power.

I hope my 1950's era tractors don't suddenly wear out any more than they already are..

I'm counting on my 55 950 to do some mowing tomorrow morning.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

My first reaction is, if you have only lost power for a few hours over 2 years.... get some candles, a battery powered radio, 5 gallon pail for water if you are on a well and call it done. If you have medical needs to have power, then get the portable unit. I spent a lot of time debating the same thing, I decided to get a portable unit. If we are out of power long enough to bother to hook up the generator, there is a good chance I will need the tractor. I am away for 2 weeks a month and my wife can't hook up a pto generator to the tractor but she can start a portable unit. You need to sort out the wattage of your home, then decide what must you be able to run, then what would you like to run.. then that will tell you what size generator you will need.

This was the most sensible post in the whole thread. People got by just fine before electricity. You can be comfortable with 19th century technology. I have a generator, but don't even bother to get it out of the barn until the second day of a power outage. For short term outages, wall hung oil lamps and candles, battery radios, a couple of Aladdin lamps, wood heat and low head gravity flow water are all we need. The comfort level of the house doesn't appreciably change when the power goes out.

I bought a 4400/5000 watt generator in 1997 for $279, before the y2k price boost. It has been used for one 5 day power outage about 15 years ago. It will run the well pump or the water heater, but not both at once, so I heat a tank of water, then switch to the pump to take a shower. My wife had the flu, and a hot shower really lifted her spirits. The generator has also been used to put an addition on the barn, which has no power. Other than that it's mothballed with the cylinder fogged and intake/exhaust bagged. It's so loud it will give you a headache if you stand next to it.

I also have a little 1000w ($149) camp generator that will run the refrigerator and freezer at the same time, a couple of light bulbs, a computer or the entertainment center. It will run for 4.5 hours on a gallon of mixed gas, and is whisper quiet. Guess which one gets used more?

In addition to the FSC travel trailer, I have a portable propane grill and propane camp stove. Put a cast iron griddle on the propane grill and you can pump out a lot of flapjacks. Mostly we just cook on the wood stove, which has a decent cook surface. A hand coffee grinder is essential, and I still have a couple old style drip coffee makers.

I have neighbors that are still 100% electric. If the power goes out, they are going to suffer. I might loan them a catalytic heater and a bucket of water. They can keep the water, but I will want the bucket back.

Over the years I have considered a PTO generator - not worth the money, or a larger genset - also not worth the money. A good portable welder would be worth the money, but makes a mediocre genset. I have a small inverter for the travel trailer, which is great when I am off grid and want it quiet.

 

[KubotainNH]

Good points. My house is mostly gas. The only appliances that electric are two reefers, dishwasher, and washer/dryer. We have gas heat and also a wood stove. We are on a well, but it's not a private well. It's communal. No sewer pump, we have septic system. Square footage is about 2000ish. I can easily isolate large circuits. And I can easily install a transfer switch.

This reads like a small unit would be plenty unless you have the need to run a 220v a/c unit. Clothes and dishes can either wait or be washed by hand. It sounds like you want a PTO generator so figure out the size and make it so. The tractor wear is a non issue, I'd be thinking more on the convenience and ease of hooking up. We lose electricity mostly in winter and seeing I work off hours I want my family to be able to stay warm without me running home so it needs to be easy to get going. My setup is: roll the gen out, connect the 20 foot cord to the house/gen, turn the key then flick the transfer switch buttons.