dig safe

[vtcoyote]

this weekend we will (hopefully) be digging a 200-300 ft. long drainage ditch to keep our barn from becoming a indoor swimming pool. anyway i just got off the phone with dig-safe and the whole thing will free to register, but it won't be legal until monday. for me its either this weekend or wait 1 month (my horses wouldn't like that ).

we will not be going deeper than 2-2 1/2 ft. deep and will not be laying any pipe, just a good ol' fashion surface drain.

what are your experiences with these kind of issues?

do i even need a permit for a job of this size?

if i still dig and the guy comes by am i going to get fined?

should i wait?

any thoughts appreciated!

 

[wroughtn_harv]

this weekend we will (hopefully) be digging a 200-300 ft. long drainage ditch to keep our barn from becoming a indoor swimming pool. anyway i just got off the phone with dig-safe and the whole thing will free to register, but it won't be legal until monday. for me its either this weekend or wait 1 month (my horses wouldn't like that ).

we will not be going deeper than 2-2 1/2 ft. deep and will not be laying any pipe, just a good ol' fashion surface drain.

what are your experiences with these kind of issues?

do i even need a permit for a job of this size?

if i still dig and the guy comes by am i going to get fined?

should i wait?

any thoughts appreciated!

You don't show where you live so we really don't know how to reply. There is one constant though, you cut a utility because you didn't want to wait for a locate, well, it can be expensive, very expensive.

A fiber drop can run you two to three thousand for a replacement, they con't repair them. They have been cut by landscapers tilling lawns. Water lines usually are ran without a rhyme or reason, they can be anywhere and usually are. Gas and electric lines can carry not only high cost for cutting, they can hurt you.

I wouldn't do it unless I was darn sure there was nothing down there. And you can't know that unless you've owned the property for fifty years or so.

 

[RonMar]

Yep, it depends on your situation. Like stated, you cut someone elses line or even one of your own services for that matter, it could cost you a small fortune to have repaired. If you are digging on your own property and are going no where near established utility runs, it shouldn't be an issue. If you are the slightest bit in doubt, wait for the locate and CYA...

 

[vtcoyote]

sorry forgot location; i am in vermont and am really only in danger of cutting my own utilities, there is no gas or water in these parts and they were up here couple years ago in the same spot so i have a general idea of the location of the lines.

hopefully they will come sooner than monday!

thanks for the input

 

[dangerdoc]

this weekend we will (hopefully) be digging a 200-300 ft. long drainage ditch to keep our barn from becoming a indoor swimming pool. anyway i just got off the phone with dig-safe and the whole thing will free to register, but it won't be legal until monday. for me its either this weekend or wait 1 month (my horses wouldn't like that ).

we will not be going deeper than 2-2 1/2 ft. deep and will not be laying any pipe, just a good ol' fashion surface drain.

what are your experiences with these kind of issues?

do i even need a permit for a job of this size?

if i still dig and the guy comes by am i going to get fined?

should i wait?

any thoughts appreciated!

A note of caution, they may not really know where the lines run. A couple of years ago, my brother called, had flags on the property and was digging about 8 feet from the neerest flag. When I wandered down, I saw the backhoe shutdown with the buried electric line hanging from the bucket.

Nobody was hurt but there was a lot of arguing about who was at fault.

 

[Bird]

I don't know anything about Vermont laws, but to answer your first question as to whether you would get fined if you go ahead digging and the guy who does the locate shows up; not in Texas UNLESS you cut/break/damage a utility line, and then as the others have said, that can get very expensive.

Do you need a permit? Again, I don't know about Vermont, but here it varies by county. We used to have no restrictions in the county where I lived, but then they came up with more new laws about 9 or 10 years ago that required a permit if you moved enough dirt to change the drainage off your property.

 

[Dirthog]

Here in Pa they are starting to fine you if you hit anything and you have not called or waited the 3 days I have heard the fine starts at $5000 not sure and don't intend to find out that is over and above the costs to repair the lines! Second I always take pictures anymore before I start any job that way if you do hit something that was marked wrong they can not give you to much grief about where the flags were. Hit a gas line that was miss marked last summer and that was the Co first words were you were to close cause they could not see there marks anymore after I ran over the site with the excavator showed him the pictures and that was the end of that. but I did recieve a form from the state to fill out about the accident 6 months later I sent coppies of the photo along with that to>

 

[Bird]

When I was on the board of directors for our rural water company, we had a farmer who was digging a post hole with his tractor and auger to set a fence post and he drilled through the water main. That water "main" was just 2" PVC out there. Anyway, the water company office had sent him a bill for the cost of the repairs, as was customary, but he came to a board meeting to contest or appeal that. It turned out that he had a wooden fence post that was rotting, so he pulled it out, and didn't call for a utility locate because he was putting a new post in the same hole. However, he had decided to go a little deeper with the new post and that's when he hit the water line. Whoever set the old post, many years before, apparently had no problem; they just lacked a couple of inches going deep enough to hit the water line. We let him slide without paying.

 

[JB4310]

A note of caution, they may not really know where the lines run. A couple of years ago, my brother called, had flags on the property and was digging about 8 feet from the neerest flag. When I wandered down, I saw the backhoe shutdown with the buried electric line hanging from the bucket.

Nobody was hurt but there was a lot of arguing about who was at fault.

Yup, they are not always accurate but your protected from liability if you had them mark it and you stayed away from the mark by X number of feet, something like 2-4 feet.
I have 300 feet of direct burial electric service to my back shop and when they marked it they had it going under a 60 year old tree, only problem is the service is less than 30 years old so I know that had to be off by at least 5-10 feet.
My buddy is an excavator and he has pulled up some expensive communications stuff, also an electric line or two, he said it's like lightning, a bright flash and a big bang.

VTcoyote, from my little experience they only mark public utilities not private, so they not going to mark something that goes from your house to the barn, they would only mark the barn service if it has it's own meter and comes from the street, they don't care if you dig up your own stuff.
JB,

 

[Bird]

Yup, they are not always accurate

In 1978, I had an in ground swimming pool put in my backyard. Instead of one buy to mark everything, we had individuals from the different utilities back then. And since that was a new area (our house was less than a year old), a kid from the contractor who installed the plumbing, electric, and HVAC system came to mark the electric. I didn't believe what he marked, so I called back and his boss assured me the kid was right. The very first bucketful the backhoe pulled up included all the electrical wiring. Sparks and fire flew, the backhoe operator jumped off his machine, etc.

The contractor then had nerve enough to want me to pay for re-routing the electrical service. But after we discussed alternatives, they decided they'd do the job at no cost to me.

 

[EddieWalker]

Not knowing Vermont, but having worked in California and Texas, I can tell you that most people have no idea what's under their soil. Many utilities cross people property to shortcut to their neighbors property. Allot of the times that property was part of a larger property when the work was done, but sometimes it's done when a neighborhood is created. I've come across phone lines, gas lines and water and sewer mains in homeowners yards. Both front and back. On one house that I do allot of work on, there is a gas line that runs under eveyrones driveway and through the middle of their front yards. On this house, it 'T's off and goes down the side of her house to the homes behind hers.

Is it really worth having to pay for the fines and repair charges to get the job done right away when it's already been so long that you've had to deal with it?

I've heard of some repair bills going into six figures. I've also heard of people who have cut fiber optic lines after a locate was done and they missed it. The guy who cut it was totally free of responsibility. If not, he figured it was a $100,000 repair and fine.

I'd wait.

Eddie

 

[TonyS]

I would wait, but even after they mark it I would be very careful. I had them mark utilities in a property of mine, dug in a clear area to install a water valve and -- uncovered an unmarked gas line about 2 feet down. Luckily I was in the hole with trowel scraping the dirt and not digging hard with the BH.

I reported it to NM DOT Safety Dept and they said "Oh yeah, we get a lot of that"!!

I would wait

 

[Kendrick]

do wait and make sure you have your markers or a photo/lot plan marked with where your digging. we have a 1500' drive that appairently the telephone line goes under the left side. when we had dig safe come out they marked from the house to just past the parking lot ie 80' the curve from going under the lot to down the drive is 10' from a telephone box that was in the bushes. no marks to or from that. I can garontee you they missed somthing. since we didnt have a good marking of where we were digging they just did 20' around the house. they will be coming back in a fiew weeks or so to re mark the whole property now that im going to put food plots in we have to know where the electric is run... 200-300' buried line and it will be close if not in the food plot area

digsafe is not going to like me they will be marking probably 3 to 4 ac of land by the time they get here

 

[NHbotanut]

I was supposed to dig a 400' trench for an automatic gate opener on Saturday. Was told by "everyone" at the club that there is nothing their in the parking lot. I insisted that Dig Safe comes in to check it out or I won't volunteer to do the job. Dig safe will be out on Monday, I'll start on Tuesday

 

[LBrown59]

Here in Pa they are starting to fine you if you hit anything and you have not called or waited the 3 days I have heard the fine starts at $5000 not sure and don't intend to find out that is over and above the costs to repair the lines!

I don't see how they would have the authority to fine you as this is a civil matter not a legal one.

 

[LBrown59]

Whis is this dig safe thing a 1 way street?
You have to call them to dig on your own property but nobody calls you when they want to dig on your place!

 

[ampsucker]

my BIL works for the electic company and runs fiber. he has many times had to splice or rerun cables when a back hoe operator digs them up. he says, the worst in when the dig right INTO the space that is marked! he has had to watch these poor guys sit there while 5-10 guys in different trucks show up to fix all the different utilities. these guys, a lot of them are independent operators, are like, who's paying for all this? the answer, you are! figure about $100 per hour for every guy that shows up. a lot of times, they will give the operator the option of digging up the rest of the line so they can fix it. otherwise, they will have to pay bring in yet another contractor to dig it up. that saves them a little money.

other posters are right - they don't care if if you dig up your own stuff, that's on you. if it's "downstream" of the meter, it's yours. upstream, you better be sure you know where it is or call digsafe to cover your arse. even if they can't find it (common with plastic or poly gas lines with no tracer wire), you are covered contractually if you make the call and have a case id number. in kansas, it is good for 15 calendar days and they have three days to get to you. they always show up the next day for me. if you don't finish your digging by the time it expires, call them again to renew. even if nothing has changed, the contract expires and you are open to liability.

amp

 

[LBrown59]

other posters are right - they don't care if if you dig up your own stuff, that's on you. if it's "downstream" of the meter, it's yours.
amp

That's not what I'm talking about.
What I said is a utility can come onto your place and do what they want without saying a thing to you before hand.
I have buried drains water lines and electric lines that cross or are on utility and government right of ways.
They can come here & do their thing without ever asking me if it might damage something of mine.
Like i said why is it one sided?

 

[Airic]

All or most properties are provided with setback for the purpose of utility easements or access. You cannot install any structures or underground items within this setback. Utilities have to right to remove and abandon. If they are installing on your property outside of this easement for public services they are breaking the law and you do have rights to have it removed but you cannot cut and disrupt services. Some existing service are grand fathered but can still be relocated sometimes at your cost My property was sub divided years before my purchase and I have phone and cable that comes off of a pedestal on my property, smack middle of my 6 acres. I had requested for a relocate and separation of services and all was done at no charge. You sometime have to go to court but, it can be done. I still have cables in the ground but all has been abandoned. This is sort of a blend of old school meeting new school rules and regulations.

 

[LBrown59]

All or most properties are provided with setback for the purpose of utility easements or access. You cannot install any structures or underground items within this setback.

This won't work at my place .
I have 3 drainage lines that have to cross the state highway and the water compaines rightaways to reach the roadside ditch that they drain into.
I also installed a 110' long by 15'' culvert in the roadside ditch which means the entire culvert is on the states right a way.
The telephone companies line crosses under the culvert.
I can't believe any of them have the right to come on to my property and tear this stuff up without any obligation to me.