Digging with loader and cutting blade

[ChubbyButtNinja]

Dumb question from a rookie.

I've narrowed my first tractor down to an LS MT242HC and Kioti DK4220SE. Both dealerships have been professional and are trying to earn my business. I like both tractors. LS is almost 10% cheaper.

LS is a little smaller (3800 pounds to 4000 pounds), and the Kioti has considerably better hydraulic flow. Most of my work will be pretty mundane stuff - cutting, moving stuff around, working 3-4 acres of land for planting stuff. The reason I went to this size tractor was the advice that for the smoothing/grading I want to do to get rid of the bumps I would want the weight. That made sense to me.

Here's the question: does that that extra hydraulic flow matter for the dirt work/digging I do with the loader and a cutting blade? I get that the extra flow helps with lifting, but I don't really need to lift much - it's mostly ground work in Georgia red dirt/clay.

Thanks for any perspective.

 

[Panik]

So here goes....

How is difference in hydraulic flow rate reflected in the loader specs between the two? Or is it?

My limited understanding of things is that for loader and 3pt work extra hydraulic flow MAY mean increased lifting specs & faster and smoother operation. I say may because other design aspects of the loader and 3pt system (geometry), as well as the design of the hydraulic system itself can factor heavily into those things.

My two cents based purely on what you've written (not brand/model preferences - I've never owned a Kioti or LS) is:

- If both machines are comfortably in your budget and it appears that the Kioti does have noticeably better loader and 3pt specs (lifting capacity, break out force, lifting height, etc) go ahead and spend the 10% more on that machine. I'm basing this off my own experiences with a lil bx2360 in that as a new tractor buyer 10 years ago I had absolutely no idea how many uses I would find for a FEL. I'm also putting forth that opinion from a desire to have a little smoother and faster FEL operation in my own tractor.

- On the other hand if the Kioti is at the top end of your budget and/or there doesn't seem to be a significant difference in FEL and 3pt capabilities between the two machines buy the more affordable tractor and if you can stash that 10% price difference away for the implements you are undoubtedly going to want.

 

[RjCorazza]

For grading and dirt work tractor weight is by far more important than hydraulic flow.

 

[paulsharvey]

Weight, but also HP matters too when Digging. Flow Can affect how fast you are able to cycle, but it's more complicated than that.

I would be thinking more about Traction. Red clay is going to be difficult to Dig with a loader, and if you have splitting wheels, you won't be able to push into a bank/pile.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Flow doesn't matter much as others have said. Instead look at lift weight and height, break out force, etc. If you are going to dig with the FEL look at cylinder rod diameter and robustness of those components. You can dig with a FEL but they are designed for handling loose material so pick the strongest one mechanically. Leave money in your budget for good tooth bar, think RS Long, and a heavy duty box blade.

gg

 

[SmallChange]

It never seems to be discussed this way, but logically I think there's the equivalent of a gear ratio for hydraulics. You could put a larger displacement pump on a tractor, which would increase the flow, but it would also decrease the pressure attainable with that engine. In other words, the work the engine can do through the wheels is equal to the tractive force multiplied by the speed, and the work it can do through the hydraulics is equal to the pressure multiplied by the flow.
For the wheels, there's a range of gear ratios available, through shifting gears. Roading up a hill consumes lots of power, and so does pulling a plow, but they do so at different speeds and forces. It's important to be able to use different gears for these.
For the hydraulics, I can imagine advantages of being able to change ratios. Having the FEL go up and down quickly can be nice, and a big breakout force can be nice, but these call for different ratios. I've never seen that available, though.

Engine horsepower is valuable!

There are other issues, like losing traction, or breaking stuff. This talk of ratios is only for the operating space where these problems don't occur.

 

[ChubbyButtNinja]

So here goes....

How is difference in hydraulic flow rate reflected in the loader specs between the two? Or is it?

My limited understanding of things is that for loader and 3pt work extra hydraulic flow MAY mean increased lifting specs & faster and smoother operation. I say may because other design aspects of the loader and 3pt system (geometry), as well as the design of the hydraulic system itself can factor heavily into those things.

My two cents based purely on what you've written (not brand/model preferences - I've never owned a Kioti or LS) is:

- If both machines are comfortably in your budget and it appears that the Kioti does have noticeably better loader and 3pt specs (lifting capacity, break out force, lifting height, etc) go ahead and spend the 10% more on that machine. I'm basing this off my own experiences with a lil bx2360 in that as a new tractor buyer 10 years ago I had absolutely no idea how many uses I would find for a FEL. I'm also putting forth that opinion from a desire to have a little smoother and faster FEL operation in my own tractor.

- On the other hand if the Kioti is at the top end of your budget and/or there doesn't seem to be a significant difference in FEL and 3pt capabilities between the two machines buy the more affordable tractor and if you can stash that 10% price difference away for the implements you are undoubtedly going to want.

Kioti flow is over 15gpm. LS is under 12.

 

[oosik]

12 gpm vs 15 gpm. I don't think you would ever notice the difference. Sit on each tractor - operate the loader controls. This will tell a better story.

 

[big bubba]

OP: overall, realize fel is designed for loader work, not excavation . installing a tooth bar would be my 1st step if you intend light ground engagement w/fel.
a 40+ hp tractor is limited in weight & size to start with & even tire size comes into play

 

[old and tired]

You are splitting hairs between 2 capable tractors that even a season tractor driver will never notice, let alone a rookie.

Best time to get a tractor was yesterday, today is the next best time.... Sit in the seats, try them out (drive/work controls) see which you like better and buy it.