Digging with loader?

[Kratos]

I only have about 50 hours on my Jinma 284 mostly brush hogging and some chipper and post holes as I am trying to make pasture out of about three acres on front of my 9 acres by cutting brush and grinding up fallen wood.

My question involves the front end loader use. I have not used it much yet, but am getting a lot of flooding during winter months due to a run-off creek that runs off all over my acreage during the winter rainy season here in Western Washington. I was thinking that I would like to try containing this run-off during the summer months by choosing a route for the water through my property and digging a trench from where it enters my acreage to where it exits my property.

Do I need to save for the back-hoe attachment or can I do this slowly with my front bucket only? Do I need to buy 'teeth' like I have seen on some buckets to do this (if I can) and where should I get them? Time is not an issue as I will have all summer to do it, but money is tighter than time. Would I be better off just hiring a dozer or backhoe guy to clear the front and dig the trench rather than trying to do it myself by trying to use my tractor like an excavation tool and possibly tearing it up by using it for a non -intended purpose?

Thanks in advance for the sharing of your experience. I do not believe in reinventing the wheel and would rather learn from another than make mistakes myself.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Digging with a front loader is possible but not easy and not really adviseable if you are going to dig a large area. You would greatly benefit from a toothbar, your dealer should be able to order one for you bucket, there are also on line souces.

It is often easier to tear up the ground with a box blade and then use the front loader to dig up the loose ground that you broke up with the box blade.

 

[SPIKER]

KRATOS:

you didn't state what kind of loader you have the import ZL20 or Koyker sprint ect.

first of loaders are not really designed for DIGGING they will and do work somewhat but put a LOT of stress onto the machine. if you plan on doing this make sure you have reinforcing braces from the loader support frames onto the rear axle housing for frame engine/bell housing support. It can get real bad REAL fast if you hit something. don't dig in 4wheel drive either it can shear drive shafts and or drive wheel stubs, (I did this last fall in 4wheel drive hit some hard clay when moving a loose pile of sand.) I've done a good bit of moving of dirt, it is best to have the dirt ripped up with a tiller box blade or plow before attempting to dig/move dirt. gravel or any other hard packed material with a FEL. TOOTH bars really help I'm told I don't have one and getting the FEL to cut is hard.

hope this help
mark M

 

[thingy]

A back blade that tilts is pretty good for making a ditch,,just depends on how big a ditch,,how the ground is,etc,,,,but I wouldn't do much digging on new dirt with your fel,,its not a dozer,,,thingy

 

[RonMar]

Spiker summed it up nicely. It is a loader, not an excavator and things can get pretty ugly if you hit something immoveable at any speed. Tractors were really meant to ground engage using the 3PH structure. How much water/how big a ditch are we talking about? You may be able to drag a ditch with a single shank ripper tooth on the 3PH. I put in a trench last spring for a 2" water line with several passes of the tooth to loosen up the ground, then the plow blade attached over the tooth to lift/separate the dirt out to the sides. When done, i had a "V" about 12" wide at the top and maybe 12"-14" deep. I went along with a narrow shovel and shoveled out the loose dirt that the ripper had broke up so I couold set the pipe all the way down in the trench. To just flow water, you wouldn't need to do this as the flow would carry away the loose material. A ditch that size would flow quite a bit of water.

I like the ripper I got from Rankin Equipment Co.(made in Eastern WA). The ripper tooth is adjustable up/down and is shear bolt protected. If you hang up on something, it will only kill the grade 2 bolt and not the structure or your 3PH. I have the ER series seen on the following link that I use on my 284. It is also handy for cutting roots around, and ripping out small stumps and bushes.

http://www.rankineqco.com/pdf/singleshankrippers.pdf

 

[HomeBrew2]

Mostly agree w/ everything so far. In your area, I'd expect you have some REAL runoff probs. I'm guessing you need to dig a "canal". I know you don't want to spend money but, I'd recommend a box scraper. Buy cheap and go easy on it ... you said you have time. The entire original canal system that makes the central valley of California so productive was built by men guiding a Fresno scraper pulled by a mule, or three. For some odd reason, that prospect sounds like fun

 

[Kratos]

Thanks for all of the input. It sounds like the box scrapper is the way to go as I do need a canal so to speak. I have a loader made by Ray at Coldwater tractor here in Hoquiam Wash were I live. I definately do not want to tear it up as I am not too mechanical fixing problems. I know Ray carries them and I will check it out. The single tooth scrapper sounds handy too for trenching. Once I get my pasture cleared and fenced, I will have to bury a power line to the electric fence transformer.

 

[Egon]

Against all opinions so far I'd try making the trench with the loader. Make it full bucket width and work downhill. I'd start at the bottom and work back uphill as this gives you more gravity help.

My little Kubota B7100 has survived this type of treatment.

Picture shows a trench just in front of the tractor. It's about two feet deep and full bucket width. The rocks you see were all moved by the little tractor also.

 

[shvl73]

I don't think I'd try it with that tractor and that loader. Remember this thread; http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/84793-what-not-do.html ?
Also, as has been mentioned, the front axle of that tractor may not be up to the task in 4wd with loader work. It would be very tempting to just lock it in when the rear spin becomes a hassle.
Using a 3pt implement would be a good idea. Could a rear scoop work? I think they're reasonably priced.

 

[Walter L]

I also think a rear 3 point scoop is the way to go if you are ditching, I have a scoop, box blade and a regular blade, But I would use the scoop because it will move apr 1/2 yard of dirt to another location easily. They are not expensive and real handy for lots of jobs.

Walter

 

[Soundguy]

Most rear scoops you can reverse, and thus use it like a pull pan.. wouldn't hurt to rippershank the area first if you already have the box blade..

Soundguy

 

[greg_g]

My recommendation goes with the majority. I would never use my own loader (a Koyker 160) to dig in previously undisturbed soil. I'm pretty sure there was a good reason that manufacturers call it a loader - and not a digger.

If a four foot trench is sufficient, use a four foot box blade. I think you can adjust the TPH enough to dig one about a foot deep, maybe more. If you want something less than four feet wide (or deeper than a BB will go), go with the middle buster and a pond scoop.

You could hire it done, but the MB and scoop may come in handy in maintaining the trench - and any other small jobs that may come your way in the future.

//greg//

 

[Kratos]

My local dealer says he can hook me up with a 5 ft. box blade for $400 plus tax. He usually takes good care of me and I trust him. I am curious about what a scouper attachment looks like and where I would get one. I think the teeth on the box blade is a big plus though the ground should be pretty soft. Is there a link to read how I would use either of these tools to make this ditch? Thanks again, you guys are great.

 

[greg_g]

My local dealer says he can hook me up with a 5 ft. box blade for $400 plus tax. He usually takes good care of me and I trust him. I am curious about what a scouper attachment looks like and where I would get one. I think the teeth on the box blade is a big plus though the ground should be pretty soft. Is there a link to read how I would use either of these tools to make this ditch? Thanks again, you guys are great.

My local dealer says he can hook me up with a 5 ft. box blade for $400 plus tax.

No offense, but I wouldn't expect much box blade for $400. I would however, predict bent lift pins and A-frame damage long before the job is done. And whereas a five footer is ok behind your size tractor for road maintenance, etc - attempting the kind of job you've described would likely either stall the tractor - or cause a helluva lotta wheelspin. Probably hard on the clutch too. That's why I specified four footer earlier.

Some people call them pond scoops, others call them dirt scoops or rear scoops. Go here to see what a rear scoop looks like: Rural King Farm and Home Internet Store
or here for another design: A & B EAGLE LINE EQUIPMENT The Shield of Quality

//greg//

 

[SPIKER]

I think he has a JM284: which is what I have and my 289 buck box blade has taken LOADS of abuse, bought it new when they closed out the "wallas brand."

does not have a removable blade but is heavy, I bent lift arms on the box when I backed into a stump when I had a loader full of rocks and was at WOT the stump didn't give but I lifted up blade dropped it over stump put it in ll2 and pulled away straightened 3~4" of bend out of the lift arms but still had a lot of damage to heat & beat out... the box was my 1st buy after getting TLB in from china... It has been most used 3pt implement too...

mark m

 

[Soundguy]

Sounding like he needs a 3pt scoop just so he can dig a 1' by 24" or 30" trench. Probably will be the easiest way he is gonna get it done.. etc.

Ripping it, or plowing it will deffinately help, no matter if he scoops or box blades it.. etc.

Soundguy

No offense, but I wouldn't expect much box blade for $400. I would however, predict bent lift pins and A-frame damage long before the job is done. And whereas a five footer is ok behind your size tractor for road maintenance, etc - attempting the kind of job you've described would likely either stall the tractor - or cause a helluva lotta wheelspin. Probably hard on the clutch too. That's why I specified four footer earlier.

Some people call them pond scoops, others call them dirt scoops or rear scoops. Go here to see what a rear scoop looks like: Rural King Farm and Home Internet Store
or here for another design: A & B EAGLE LINE EQUIPMENT The Shield of Quality

//greg//

 

[mjarrels]

There is a reason why they are called "loaders".

mark

 

[ToadHill]

I've been controlling water for 20 years with a 1 bottom plow. Just determine the direction you want it to flow and plow with the roll on the downhill side. All it takes to maintain is a trip down the trench each spring and fall with the front and rear tire running in the bottom of the ditch.

 

[Kratos]

The plow idea sounds pretty good, but we may get a lot more water in the Pacific Northwest. Then again, if I can just choose its path, I can let the water do the work (anyone ever seen the Grand Canyon).

The 5 ft. box blade that my local dealer said he would sell me for $400 is by JBar and he also has a scoop by the same company for $395.

 

[3RRL]

The plow idea sounds pretty good, but we may get a lot more water in the Pacific Northwest. Then again, if I can just choose its path, I can let the water do the work (anyone ever seen the Grand Canyon).

The 5 ft. box blade that my local dealer said he would sell me for $400 is by JBar and he also has a scoop by the same company for $395.

You are right on the mark.
I did a lot of gutter cutting by tilting my boxblade and just cutting a groove (gutter) that way. Once it started collecting water and flowing, the water made it a lot bigger. That will work good if you have any kind of slope to get it running.