Dipper Stick snapped in half

[LD1]

Well there certainly was a point where a couple engineers scratched their heads and said "Holy crap! We need some kind of protection here!" and developed circuit relief valves.

It is the exact same thing with FEL's. To my knowledge, most FEL's dont have a relief in the valve. And with the bucket dumped ALL the way and trying to do some heavy back dragging with a 4wd tractor, POP goes the dump hoses.

I have blown BOTH mine at differnt times doing this exact same thing. My own fault and I knew the risks. But replacing a 3/8" line that is only 18" long is nothing compaired to a 6' 1"+ line on a BH:confused2:

 

[bindian]

It is the exact same thing with FEL's. To my knowledge, most FEL's dont have a relief in the valve. And with the bucket dumped ALL the way and trying to do some heavy back dragging with a 4wd tractor, POP goes the dump hoses.

I have blown BOTH mine at differnt times doing this exact same thing. My own fault and I knew the risks. But replacing a 3/8" line that is only 18" long is nothing compaired to a 6' 1"+ line on a BH:confused2:

Actually, the longest hoses on my backhoe are easy to change. Well, I haven't changed them. I have removed them to cut them and added fittings for quick disconnects for powering an auger, then reinstalled them.
hugs, Brandi

 

[JB4310]

Actually, the longest hoses on my backhoe are easy to change. Well, I haven't changed them. I have removed them to cut them and added fittings for quick disconnects for powering an auger, then reinstalled them.
hugs, Brandi

I think he's referring to the cost difference between the 2.

But as far as carrying stumps, logs, boulders etc curled up under a hoe, that's pretty much standard procedure.
Just cause your light on the front doesn't mean you're gonna blow hoses. IMO.

JB

 

[Ford tractor]

Not ALL backhoes have that. So my point is just that it isnt good practice to pull with something chained or hooked to the hoe.

And even those BH's that have them reliefs, their is no guarentee that they will vent fast enough to prevent rupturing a hose. It all just depends on the geometry of the hoe, where the load is hooked, and how fast you are pulling.

I am not trying to be a "nag" or "saftey police" here. Just pointing out the real and present danger that some people may never give a thought about. And that is the fact that almost ALL BH's and trackhoes have the ability to pull MORE under wheel or track power than they do with the hydraulics.

Blown hoses are no fun for anyone

Well there certainly was a point where a couple engineers scratched their heads and said "Holy crap! We need some kind of protection here!" and developed circuit relief valves.

I am talking more of the older backhoes. 1960's:thumbsup:

As far as I know, nearly all of the BH's from the early 60's on DO HAVE pressure relief valves. Typically 3 in the hoe control valve and one in the FEL valve. Main input pressure, boom drop pressure and swing pressure are all on separate reliefs. The only ones that I suspect don't are the ones that look like a plumber built it with round pipe (late '40's - '50's ). Modern industrial hoes (1960's and up) are actually pretty easy to change hoses on. They also don't have 1" ID hose going to the cylinders! That's return pr main pressure line size, not actuating pressure line size --> unless you are talking about a REALLY large excavator and not something in the 8-16,000 pound class that we are discussing.

 

[JESSE1]

I've been to Lew's a few times. My first impression was "now THIS is a welding shop". It's been in Tyler a long time and has a very good reputation.

 

[LD1]

I think he's referring to the cost difference between the 2.

But as far as carrying stumps, logs, boulders etc curled up under a hoe, that's pretty much standard procedure.
Just cause your light on the front doesn't mean you're gonna blow hoses. IMO.

JB

Correct about the cost. That is what I was refering to. And I am NOT talking about carrying stuff curled up under the hoe. I am talking about pulling. There was a thread on here just about a month ago where a guy was wondering if it was ok to use a log with a BH by attaching the chain to the hoe bucket or dipperstick, and then pulling with the tractor. This is what I am talking about. NOT carrying loose stuff pinched up in the bucket, rather actually skidding something attached to the hoe, especially if the hydraulics wouldnt move it.

They also don't have 1" ID hose going to the cylinders! That's return pr main pressure line size, not actuating pressure line size --> unless you are talking about a REALLY large excavator and not something in the 8-16,000 pound class that we are discussing.

I could be mistaken but I do believe Dads 1960's Ford 4500 has 1" lines running to ALL of the stick cylinders. And I could be wrong, But I was not aware that valve had a PR in it. Either way, we arent going to chain anything to the hoe and tow with the tractor. If it is chained to the hoe, the hoes own hydraulics will move it, if not, we will chain to a solid point on the tractor.

 

[JoelD]

Thank you everyone for your comments. I'm not upset with my Dad. He works very hard is is extremly productive. Whatever the damage is over this, it's nothing compared to what he's accomplished in clearing the land and moving dirt. I could through the backhoe away and be money ahead when comparing it to what it would have cost to hire it out. And it's just another repair that will get done.

The reason it broke isn't from banging the bucket like a hammer, though that happens to a small degree. What he does is when digging, he extends the dipper and boom out as far as it will go. He has the bucket out as far as it will go and then he lowers it to the ground. Then he curls the bucket to dig and with everything extended, the downward pressure of the bucket lifts the back end of the backhow up off of the ground. It only goes up a few inches or so, but he does this almost every time. There are over 6,500 hours on it now, and half of those are from him doing just this every time he digs. He has taken out thousands of trees. Some are massive, others are just a foot to two thick. He has it on idle, or just above idle, so nothing is going very quickly. It's just that digging technique that he has and how he lifts the weight of the backhoe every time he digs.

What kills me is that every time he does it, he is surprised that it happened. I've told him about it, and explained that he needs to dig with the boom lifting upwards, not curling the bucket or pullling the dipper. When Im right there next to him and showing him how, he gets a full bucket every time and the outriggers stay in place and on the ground. He seems to get it, then when I come back, he's back to doing it his way.

Besides all the strain of lifting the backhoe off of the ground, he rarely gets a full bucket of dirt. In my mind, he's working twice as hard, taking twice as much time and putting ten times the wear on the machine then he has to. We are not in any rush, and he sticks with what he starts, which is why he gets so much done, but the damage is there and it really doesn't have to happen.

Knowing all this, I'm sure he will go right back to digging like he always has, and I'm going to just keep on trying to get him to try to do it my way, but realize it's probaby not going to happen. It will break again, but next time, it will be something else. It's just the way it is.

Eddie

The above is what I've found most interesting on the thread. It is hard to believe that looking back our dads were able to accomplish anything sometimes. I think it is totally the father son thing going on. One can't imagine how the other performs certain tasks and gets anything done in the process.

I think age also plays a factor, as you get older you just change, from bad to good to supper wise but just not so good anymore.

Interesting how my opinion of my dad, who's almost 80 now (I hate that he's aging), has changed as I age. At times I used to think man, he's just a jerk, to now I think, ohhhh, I get it why he behaves the way he did / does.

In the end, I think it is clear that Eddie is demonstrating a thoughtful, mature attitude towards the guy in this world who cares more about helping Eddie, albeit his way, than most any other guy on the planet.

Won't be long until the mini-boss is thinking, man my dad is crazy trying to pack my show costumes into the suitcase the way he is, or geeze what a dopy way to fill a bycicle tire with air. Or how about yesterday: "Dad, that's not the way you mix the cake batter, and that's definitely not the way to put the cake into the easy-bake oven". My response: "oh, sorry sweetheart, thanks for correcting me."

Back to backhoes, I still would've welded it myself.

Looking forward to seeing the repair!!

Good luck with the machine Eddie.

Joel

 

[EddieWalker]

Thanks for all the great comments. Just another Dad note. We've been fighting issues with the muffler on the backhoe. It keeps breaking the welds where the tail pipe mounts to the muffler. I tried welding it up, then added some bracing, and then some more bracing before we took it to Lews. They did it up so much better then I had after five different attempts. Sometimes it's just cheaper to take it to a pro and get it done right the first time!!!!

Part of the problem with the muffler is that the motor mounts are gone. The rubber just vanished into the air at some point. Dad decided to replace them yesterday, so he got all the tools out, and then came and got me off of the roof of my gazebo. It took me about four hours to replace them, while he handed me tools and inspected what I was doing. Now that it's done, I'm glad that we did it, but I really wanted to be working on my gazebo.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Here are the pictures of the cracks on the boom. They are not very large, but I'm sure they will just get worse fairly quickly.

I'm gonna attempt this repair myself. I have an AC/DC arc welder.

I was thinking of drilling a hole at the ends of the cracks. I've read a few comments saying to do this, and I've always heard it's a good idea. How big of a hole should I drill?

What welding rod should I use? How hot should it be? I will be welding verticaly. Is straight up or sideways better?

Thank you,
Eddie

 

[Taylortractornut]

I m a little late here but My friend William Davis has a large welding shop. He had a man bring in a 580 Case boom about a 2000 model with a Ductile Iron boom that the top crowd arm ear broke on. THey priced them out 7k. William built him one from plate steel for 2500.

 

[JB4310]

Here are the pictures of the cracks on the boom. They are not very large, but I'm sure they will just get worse fairly quickly.

I'm gonna attempt this repair myself. I have an AC/DC arc welder.

I was thinking of drilling a hole at the ends of the cracks. I've read a few comments saying to do this, and I've always heard it's a good idea. How big of a hole should I drill?

What welding rod should I use? How hot should it be? I will be welding verticaly. Is straight up or sideways better?

Thank you,
Eddie

Forgot the pics,

I can't help much with the welding advice, but I've been having the best luck with 7018 for everything lately since I got my DC machine. I would struggle with both those positions on a vertical plane, but would think side to side MIGHT be easier/better.

JB

 

[EddieWalker]

Here are the pictures.

Eddie

 

[JB4310]

IMO, those are not in need of attention at this time, you could watch them but I doubt there would be any failure there.

I'm curious what others will recommend, but that's how I feel.

If you were gonna weld it I don't think drilling would be required either, just grind it and lay a hot penetrating bead in there.

JB.

 

[Short Game]

I'd say those cracks were caused by the same actions that got the dipper. Left alone, I'd think they could only grow. They appear to be quite old, just like the older beginnings of that dipper failure. I'd want them welded, but if it were me, I'd get plenty of advice before trying it. I'd still want to do it myself because I love doing that kind of stuff, and that would be a weld I'd want to learn to do. I'd figure I wouldn't be making it any worse if I had a good coach.

 

[dex3361]

Now is the time to fix these cracks.

I would v grind the cracks out good and go a bit past where you can visibly see the cracks. Make the v go almost all the way through.

Preheat the area that is to be welded to about 500 degrees F.

Make the first pass with 6010 and the rest of the passes with 7018(fresh out of a new 5# can or ones that have been properly stored or prepped).

:thumbsup:

 

[AKwelder]

I can't see to much in the picture, but before deciding on what to do i would clean it up and see it better with out the paint. I have gone out on a job to fix cracks like that and they were only cracked on the paint.

I like to strip the paint, warm it with a propane torch to burn off any oils and look again.

An old timer said while it is still warm spray the crack with penetrating oil. Let it sit. Clean it with brake clean, and sprinkle talcum powder on it. if the wet bleeds out it is a crack. I have never tried it


Luck

 

[EddieWalker]

You guys are great. Thank you for the AWESOME advice!!!!

Eddie

 

[mjncad]

The way Eddie describes his Dad reminds me of my Father-in-Law when he was healthy...eager to help; but didn't always think something through completely before jumping in with the tools.

It sucks seeing him in a nursing home now.

 

[5030]

I can't see to much in the picture, but before deciding on what to do i would clean it up and see it better with out the paint. I have gone out on a job to fix cracks like that and they were only cracked on the paint.

I like to strip the paint, warm it with a propane torch to burn off any oils and look again.

An old timer said while it is still warm spray the crack with penetrating oil. Let it sit. Clean it with brake clean, and sprinkle talcum powder on it. if the wet bleeds out it is a crack. I have never tried itLuck

That's basically the exact procedure for using Magna-Flux dye prep. You just substitute the Magna-Flux products and a black light.

 

[bindian]

The way Eddie describes his Dad reminds me of my Father-in-Law when he was healthy...eager to help; but didn't always think something through completely before jumping in with the tools.

It sucks seeing him in a nursing home now.

Mjncad,
Watching parents age is hard on all of us. Enjoy him every chance you get.:thumbsup: