Dirt Scraper (Dirt Pan) / Towed Vs. Dirt Scoop / 3-Pt. - WHICH ROUTE ????

[jeff9366]

Dirt Scraper (Dirt Pan) / *Towed* Vs. Dirt Scoop / *3-Pt* - WHICH ROUTE ????

Of late T-B-N has hosted goodly number of new threads on Dirt Scrapers, AKA Dirt Pans; towed implements that scrape up dirt then transport it. The brand I have researched, Hoelscher, makes their 48" model DB-4 / .9 cubic yard, for 25-35 horsepower tractors.

Hoelscher dealer in Alachua, Florida, Alachua Tractor and Equipment, quoted me DB-4 $6000 (Apron +$1780),
DB-5 $6400 (Apron +$1810); expensive attachments new.

Dirt Scoops, which mount on the 3-Pt. Hitch and are pulled, or, less frequently, pushed, are made by Leinbach, King Kutter and are at my local TSC/ in stock. Dirt Scoops are $350-$400.

Capacity of DB-4 Hoelscher Pan is 24 cubic feet; for 30" Leinbach Scoop 10 cubic feet.

I like GOOD equipment. Equally I worship the KISS Principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Pans and Scoops both succeed in the market with disparate price points.

I have NO experience with either type. (I do move dirt with a Rollover Box Blade)

WHICH TYPE TO BUY, PAN OR SCOOP?

LINKS:

http://www.hoelscher.com/prod_dbscraper.htm#specs

http://www.hoelscherinc.com/movies/dbscraper.mpg

Scoop Pan Scoop pan [# 30] : Leinbach Machinery, Implements and attachments for agriculture and landscaping

 

[Piston]

Do you have a FEL?

What are you trying to do with it?

I think your needs will dictate which to buy. What would you be pulling it with, and how much does it weigh?

 

[jeff9366]

YES. I have a Kubota B3300SU tractor/loader package including Kubota LA504 FEL. (33-hp/4-WD/1,800 pounds/industrial tires)

I have been hauling dirt around 200 acre residential development in 1/2 ton dump trailer, for trail development and landscaping.

Too slow given my need. Dump trailer I have satisfies other trailer requirements.

Larger King Kutter XB Trailer, 1-1/2 tons, is $2900, delivered. Nice rig but not what I think I want AT THIS MOMENT.

 

[gabby]

You can do much more with the the towed pan but don't try to get by with the minimum horsepower because it won't be nearly enough.

 

[jeff9366]

I have sandy-loam here, no rocks, in Fanning Springs, Florida.

I rarely need rippers when pulling 60", 630 pound 'Bush Hog' Rollover Box Blade, it cuts fine until 3/4 full, then, I admit, tractor tires lose traction.

When soil is dry it is "fluffy" but that is only 4-5 months of the year, divided between two "dry" seasons.

The 48" Hoelscher Dirt Pan weighs 980 pounds but has gauge wheels. Will not gauge wheels control/decrease draft?


[ I do eat beef, often. Beef is whats for dinner.]

 

[texasjohn]

I used a dirt pan to scrape out and enlarge my dirt tanks...tough clay soil, 50 hp tractor...limiting factor was traction...even with extra weight on rear of tractor and FEL bucket full. Glory of dirt pan is that you can fill the pan then drive at reasonable speed to dump site, then spread reasonably evenly, turn and go back to the dig site.

So, as long as dump site is reasonably close to dig site, it's great...however, I cannot imagine carrying the dirt that way any more than a couple hundred yards before a different technique ...dump trailer...would be needed. I've not used a dirt scoop, but believe that for the application you have it would be more difficult to operate than the dirt pan...thus, the pan is simpler although more expensive by a lot...also, width of pan is likely a better match for what you are doing. Pan makes a nice, even cut of dirt most of the time about 1 inch deep for a pull until the bed is full, then hydraulically it is lifted to become a trailer behind the tractor. At dump site, hydraulics, again, initiate the dump which is somewhat controlled over the area...spread about 6 inches to 12 inches thick.

Recommendation....use each at a dealer and move several scoops back and forth. It will immediately become clear which one will be the best for what you are wanting to do. Their operation and capabilities and speed of operation are vastly different.

 

[Piston]

I think for your uses, considering that you have fairy easy soil to deal with, the towable dirt pan from Hoelcshler is by far the way to go. You have the FEL with bucket that will do a much better job scooping dirt than any 3 pt dirt scoop.
Typically it seems that people buy dirt scoops because they don't have a FEL, whereas people buy towable dirt pans to COMPLEMENT their FEL, when doing a job similar to what you are doing.
I would go with the towable dirt pan/scraper.

 

[jeff9366]

So, as long as dump site is reasonably close to dig site, it's great...however, I cannot imagine carrying the dirt that way any more than a couple hundred yards before a different technique ...dump trailer...would be needed.

Just 200 yards? In my ignorance it seems like a short transport distance for a wheeled pan. Please expand on distance perspective from your experience.

 

[texasjohn]

I was traveling over rough pasture, not any roads or smooth ground, thus transit time gets more significant as distance increases. I did not have to move the spoil very far anyway. I was paying rent by the day, thus aware of time required. I guess depending on resources available and needs the crossover distance/time between transport via pan vs load into dump trailer will vary. I have 200ish acres and it's a mile of travel from one side to the other....I just wanted to point out that in your case with 400 acres transit time from one side to the other could be significant.

 

[Jnasystems]

I have never used either, so I can't say what would be better, but according to the links you have above, the scoop only holds 10 cubic ft and the pan .9 yards (that is 24.3 cubic ft). Not sure how easy it is to load, but if similar, the pan would do a lot more work (probably better) than the scoop in a day.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I need to move a hill about 250 yards to make a deep fill for a shop location I hope to build on before I die.

Got serious about a dirt pan. The size I looked at preferred 100 HP but my 60 HP was suggested MIN. After some looking I decided to stick with backhoe and 16' flat dump. It was all on my place but being able to back up and dump in tight places is a plus. Pans are not for use on paved roads in my view because of the mess they can make.

Moved a lot of dirt putting in a water way with just a 6' box blade about 200 yards to the other end of the field. It went much faster than I expected. Since you are making a glass smooth road in the process speed can be very high (for a tractor) going and coming when using a box blade. 50 years ago we moved gravel with a scoop but I think most would ditch that method FAST if there was much dirt move.

 

[jeff9366]

I have never used either, so I can't say what would be better, but according to the links you have above, the scoop only holds 10 cubic ft and the pan .9 yards (that is 24.3 cubic ft).

You are absolutely correct. I will modify opening post. See, I am learning.

AND THANK YOU.

 

[Jnasystems]

The specs for the DB4 also indicate a max HP of 35 and the 50 was the max HP for the 72" pan, but even at 24.3 cubic ft of dirt (should weigh somewhere around 2200 lbs plus the 1000lbs of scraper) it sounds to me like the pan is a self loading dump trailer and a box blade in one. $2000 would be a great price for what it can do if you ask me. Should be a lot faster than a dump trailer the size of the king kutter xb mentioned above if you are looking to reduce the grade in one area and raise it elsewhere. I would even think it would be just as fast to transport it as both would be pulled by a tractor, but if I were moving a lot of dirt more than 200 yards, I would want the biggest dump trailer my truck would pull and move 4 yards at a time a lot faster than the tractor would go.

 

[Jnasystems]

Just looked again at that pan (I want to dredge a pond - maybe around 4000 yards total to remove) and it is really making the gears turn - with the apron, it seems like it would be exactly like a dump trailer and could be loaded by a mini ex or backhoe. With that and my brothers 12k lbs dump trailer, the mini would stay much busier and I would have a nice tool to spread it all out nicely over a 3 acre field.

Here is a link to an old thread, but had some first hand experience and several other brands to look at. I didn't read it all yet and I started on page 6 if it, but it had a lot of cool info in the posts on that page:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/50169-best-dirt-moving-attachment-found.html

I also found a used unit that went at auction for $2200 and a Craigslist add claiming a new one cost $3500, so they may be more expensive than the presumed $2000. Still very interesting to me.

 

[NHmitch]

It sounds like you have a great start for what you need. You might also consider renting an excavator for a few days, and that may save you about half the cost of buying your own equipment if that is the only project that you will be working on with it. I use a Country Line by TSC dirt scoop every week, however I also do not have an FEL. The dirt scoop is great for most tasks, and will hold the same amount as a small FEL bucket, or about 9 Cubic Feet. They are also fairly easy to operate, because the design, and the physics allow the scoop to dump very easily when the level is released from your seat, even with the heaviest load. The weight is greatly depended on the type of soil, and the density, the moisture content. I have had scoops of dirt that weight close to 1k, and some that weight about 300lbs. It sounds like it may work for what you need it for however it will take longer with this implement, but it is a great tool, and especially useful for digging, and leveling, and I have been able to do almost everything that I thought I needed an FEL for, however I use ours mainly for moving soil for our vegetable plots, and moving, and leveling our ever growing endless supply of manure filled shavings from our animals. I hope that you are able to find what you need and have fun working on your project!

 

[Piston]

I'm not sure what the DB-4 costs, but I imagine its not all that far off from the $5 grand that the DB-6 costs. It would certainly be a great tool to have and fun to use, but they sure are pricey too.

 

[jeff9366]

Consensus of advice: Hoelscher Scraper/Pan would be the most time efficient tool, IF my Kubota B3300 has enough power, 3-Pt. strength, weight and traction to overcome Hoelscher draft while scraping up dirt.

Big IF.

The King Kutter XB Trailer weighs 600 pounds and has a capacity of 35 cubic feet / 1-1/2 tons at somewhere around half of Hoelscher DB-4 price. Have to buy new from Northern Tool, which has KKXB as an exclusive, apparently. There is a Northern Tool store in Ocala, 70 miles away, so possibly can eliminate $455 freight by picking up there. KKXB comes as a kit, which I would assemble; no big deal but a day of my time. So far as I am aware, KKXB is the only KK branded product offered as a kit. Is KKXB kit manufactured in Alabama at the KK plant, or sourced in Asia with the KK brand? Is 'orange' a clue? Northern Tool is a big importer. Some imported kits are a bear.

If...If...Iffy.

XB_Dump_Trailer.wmv - YouTube

King Kutter Dump Trailer Review - Four Wheeler Magazine

The KKXB has been sold for several years but I cannot find even one customer review.

Any T-B-N readers have first hand experience with KKXB trailer?

I really do not want another trailer. I want to go a step beyond my existing Rollover Box Blade.

I have a King Kutter Rotary Mower and a King Kutter Rotary Harrow, both manufactured in Alabama and satisfactory attachments.

 

[jeff9366]

The 48" Hoelscher Dirt Pan weighs 980 pounds but has gauge wheels. Will not gauge wheels control/decrease draft?

Can someone with scraper experience answer this?

 

[bullbreaker]

It sounds like you have a great start for what you need. You might also consider renting an excavator for a few days, and that may save you about half the cost of buying your own equipment if that is the only project that you will be working on with it. I use a Country Line by TSC dirt scoop every week, however I also do not have an FEL. The dirt scoop is great for most tasks, and will hold the same amount as a small FEL bucket, or about 9 Cubic Feet. They are also fairly easy to operate, because the design, and the physics allow the scoop to dump very easily when the level is released from your seat, even with the heaviest load. The weight is greatly depended on the type of soil, and the density, the moisture content. I have had scoops of dirt that weight close to 1k, and some that weight about 300lbs. It sounds like it may work for what you need it for however it will take longer with this implement, but it is a great tool, and especially useful for digging, and leveling, and I have been able to do almost everything that I thought I needed an FEL for, however I use ours mainly for moving soil for our vegetable plots, and moving, and leveling our ever growing endless supply of manure filled shavings from our animals. I hope that you are able to find what you need and have fun working on your project!

Howdy Mitch, I'am guessing you have 30" scoop and not 24 .

Boone

 

[Deere Dude]

Possibly another suggestion; I had an old steel trailer, 4'x7' and 16" sides. I added to the sides to make it about 2-1/2' about. I put a pintle hitch on it so it matches one I have on my FEL. I can fill the trailer up with 5-6 loaded heaping scoops from a 60" FEL. I fill the trailer heaping until it rolls off the sides. I then hook it to my FEL and drive it the 100 to 200 yards and raise the front up to dump it. The trailer is fairly high because it has a mobile home axle, springs and tires. Once it starts to dump, because of the way I mounted my hitch I can stand the trailer on it's end to dump all the dirt. This is just an idea. It works great for me but will by no means work for everyone. I can move about 80 Cubic feet in one trip easily with almost no spill. This system I am just puttering around with the tractor most of the time in a 1/2 throttle position except when loading.

I have a 30" dirt scoop but found when I fill that and the FEL bucket and transport it over any bumps I lose some of it and it makes a mess on roads.