Disc Harrow Alterations

[deere5105]

I have recently purchased a used Long disc harrow. Have just now gotten a chance to look it over. Got a few things I am wanting to do to it.

#1) It measured 9' across the back disc gangs. I prefer it to be 8' since it would make it easier to transport and get around in the woods with. After looking it over this morning I determined I could unbolt the hangers and slide them in. The rear is now adjusted to 8' wide. I noticed I do not now have the typical wide gap between the rear gangs. I used it this afternoon and turned under about 4 acres with no noticeable issues. Anyone ever dealt with this and is there any reason for concern? Should I just move it back?

#2) Took the outside disc blade off on each of the front axles to verify the axle size. According to my measurements they are 1-1/8" axles. The blades right now are very worn 20" blades and I am entertaining the possibility of going back with 22" blades as this was what I was wanting on a new one. I figure they will be a little heavier and taller and should cut better. Any reason not to pursue this?

#3) Recently replaced a worn axle on another disc, see attached picture. The blades wouldn't ever tighten up and would spin on the axle. While checking mine I found the axles also showed similiar signs of wear, but have no issue tightening up. One of the axles is slightly bent and I plan on changing it anyway. As long as the blades tighten up and don't spin on axle is it worth changing out all of them while I have it apart?

Thanks in advance for all suggestions.

 

[jenkinsph]

I would adjust the rear gangs to collect the dirt thrown outwards by the front gangs, no more and no less. I would pick a gear around 5 mph which would allow the front gangs to throw the dirt outwards. If you set them too far out you will leave a rut in the middle, what you want is to adjust them where they leave the ground reasonably level.

For the 22" blades, just make sure you have enough clearance for them. Recognize that larger thicker and heavier blades will put more stress on the axles too.

Might be able to weld up the notches in the axles but I would be concerned about loosing the temper. If you add some spacers (think thick washers) to the inside end of the axle you should be able to offset the notches enough to expose the blade centers to a new portion of the axle that isn't worn. I would consider adding about 3/8" spacer to accomplish this.

I wouldn't change out all of the axles, I would try to straighten the bent axle and if I didn't have success I would change only the bent axle. When you tighten the axle and hub assemblies around the blades the axle should be in tension. For this reason if it has a slight bend in it you should be able to straighten it and reuse it. The blade spacers play an important role in keeping the blades aligned as well as keeping the axle from bending, so keep the axle end nut tight.

 

[deere5105]

I would adjust the rear gangs to collect the dirt thrown outwards by the front gangs, no more and no less. I would pick a gear around 5 mph which would allow the front gangs to throw the dirt outwards. If you set them too far out you will leave a rut in the middle, what you want is to adjust them where they leave the ground reasonably level.

For the 22" blades, just make sure you have enough clearance for them. Recognize that larger thicker and heavier blades will put more stress on the axles too.

Might be able to weld up the notches in the axles but I would be concerned about loosing the temper. If you add some spacers (think thick washers) to the inside end of the axle you should be able to offset the notches enough to expose the blade centers to a new portion of the axle that isn't worn. I would consider adding about 3/8" spacer to accomplish this.

I wouldn't change out all of the axles, I would try to straighten the bent axle and if I didn't have success I would change only the bent axle. When you tighten the axle and hub assemblies around the blades the axle should be in tension. For this reason if it has a slight bend in it you should be able to straighten it and reuse it. The blade spacers play an important role in keeping the blades aligned as well as keeping the axle from bending, so keep the axle end nut tight.

Steve, Thanks for the input.

Speed wise that is about where I am running. Current settings is leaving a smooth and level bed. I am not satisfied with the 3 pt hitch set up. It is allowing to much movement and allowing the rear to rise. By the time I extend the top link it isn't leaving much clearance when lifting to turn or transport.

As for the 22" blades, I don't think I will have a problem with clearance. Most of what I am seeing with 22" blades is on 1-1/8" axles. It appears a popular combination that must be holding up pretty good???

Good idea on the axles. Had not considered the washers as spacers to get to a new part of the axle.

I got this disc for what I felt like was a good price and don't mind spending a little on it to get it right. The frame is 4" square. I even considered replacing some of them. One of them is rusting on the inside. Picked this disc up last week in Summit. You probably familiar with Summit just outside of McComb.

 

[MHarryE]

When I bought my 3 pt disk I didn't realize they installed the rear gangs way in to reduce shipping width and you're supposed to move them out. Problem it made was it created a hill in the center even at slow speeds. I am embarrassed to say I didn't realize the rear gangs needed to be adjusted out until I read it here. Now I have have them set out far enough to pull in the dirt thrown out by the fronts and not create a hill in the center. So creating a problem like I had is the thing to watch out for by setting your rear gangs in too far.

I am amazed at the condition of some disks I have seen at auctions. Apparently you can have all the blades loose, bearings completely shot, broken spools, and the disk will still work okay. Surely they didn't all fall into complete disrepair the last time they used it prior to the auction. Besides my 3 pt disk, I have a 13' pull behind disk that is over 40 years old. I check to make sure my blades are tight and bearings are in good shape, and any cracked blades are taken care of.

 

[jenkinsph]

Getting some new blades on the disc may help with the set problems you are having.
I used to live outside of Summit actually on Hywy 98W, I use McComb as a reference because of it being more recognized. The Southern Tractor dealership in Summit is where I bought my first Deere. Used to be Price Tractor, great people.

 

[deere5105]

I intended to take a picture yesterday of the finished product after using with the rear gangs moved in. I could not tell any noticeable difference in the plowed area, other than the 1' less turned. In my thinking as long as it is pulling in what is thrown out, the extra set of inside blades will only cut more, give more weight and still allow me to move it back out to 9' wide if I ever see a need to. It looks different than most as all that I have seen have a greater separation between the inmost rear gang blades. I thought I would put this out to see if anyone had ever done this and had a bad experience due to something I was overlooking.

Think for time being will leave at it's new position and begin looking into the blade replacements and 3pt hitch. Once I get the structural like I want it I plan to finish it up with a new coat of paint.

 

[deere5105]

Getting some new blades on the disc may help with the set problems you are having.
I used to live outside of Summit actually on Hywy 98W, I use McComb as a reference because of it being more recognized. The Southern Tractor dealership in Summit is where I bought my first Deere. Used to be Price Tractor, great people.

We have a Southern Tractor dealership in Hattiesburg too. Used to be Lovitt Equipment. Mr. Lovitt still works there. I went by the Summit dealership while there just to see what it looked like. Picked up a couple tubes of grease I needed to make it worth my time.

 

[deere5105]

It seems the consensus is that as long as the soil is left level behind the plow that there is no real concern over the distance between the two rear disc gangs being closer than normal. Thought about emailing a manufacturer to get their opinion too, but haven't yet.

Based on the fact that the axle size is standard for most 22" blades and as long as they clear adequately, is there any reason not to go back with the biggest(22") blades possible? Have been looking on AgriSupply.com to get an idea of what is out there and there appears to be several different versions available. I have determined I do not want anything less than 4.5mm or 7 ga. Is it better to go with the thickest possible regardless of price or is there not much gain once you get to a certain point. Some were double the price for one more mm thicker. In looking at the Frontier site, the DH1396 I was looking at states 4 mm blades on it. Is it safe to assume that is adequate? Is there a significant difference in country's of origin or are they all basically the same quality?

 

[Gary Fowler]

I had a super heavy 14 foot tandem pull type disc back in the 60's that had 1/4" blades on it which was the thickest available on a tandem farm disc and they never broke even if it ran up on an underground stump and picked the whole disc up on one blade. It took a 100 HP tractor to pull it but it would cut to the axles in one pass on most soil. It also took 4 tires to carry it due to the weight. I cant see that you would need that thick of blades on your 8 foot. My 8 footer as shown in photos has about 1/8" thick blades (estimated) as I didnt measure them last time I changed out an axle and it cuts pretty well. I have to have my 50 HP tractor in 4 WD to pull it. I just noticed in the photos that the front gangs are quiet wide apart and should probably be moved in closer. Looks like another project in development thanks to TBN.

 

[deere5105]

I had a super heavy 14 foot tandem pull type disc back in the 60's that had 1/4" blades on it which was the thickest available on a tandem farm disc and they never broke even if it ran up on an underground stump and picked the whole disc up on one blade. It took a 100 HP tractor to pull it but it would cut to the axles in one pass on most soil. It also took 4 tires to carry it due to the weight. I cant see that you would need that thick of blades on your 8 foot. My 8 footer as shown in photos has about 1/8" thick blades (estimated) as I didnt measure them last time I changed out an axle and it cuts pretty well. I have to have my 50 HP tractor in 4 WD to pull it. I just noticed in the photos that the front gangs are quiet wide apart and should probably be moved in closer. Looks like another project in development thanks to TBN.

Gary,
In looking back at the pictures, I don't believe I can move the fronts any closer together without the blades hitting each other. Out of curiousity, what size blades are you running? I noticed you too have six across the back. Are they 9" spacing? Also noticed the rail placed for extra weight. I am trying to see if I can make decisions now to avoid having to add extra weight to it. Does the set up you have cut well in new ground? How about previously broken ground with heavy grass?

 

[jenkinsph]

deere5105,
When you consider that while you may not penetrate the surface as far as you would like with the first pass recognize that you can make that trip across the field faster with less fuel. About three trips across your fields should give you some good results.

For the 22" blades I would go with the thickest blades without paying the exhorbitant amount. I would also go for maximum set in the front gang and slightly less in the rear. I would not bother with extra weight on the frame either. If the front gangs are almost touching each other the rear gangs should be about 15 to 18 inches apart, just a guess.

 

[deere5105]

Steve,
Sounds about right on the rear gangs. I think mine are somewhere around 8"-10" since I moved them in to get the outside dimension down to 8'. Below is what I put together by looking at AgriSupply.com:

1) 22" Notch x 4.0 mm, 1 1/8" = $20.42 FREE SHIPPING #38104. India
2) 22" Notch x 4.5 mm, 1 1/8" = $22.68 FREE SHIPPING #38095. India
3) 22" Notch x 5.0 mm, 1 1/8" = $23.89 FREE SHIPPING #40044. India
4) 22" Notch x 6.0 mm, 1 1/8" = $29.48 FREE SHIPPING #40046. India


Based on information above, looks like the best compromise would be #3 at 5.0 mm for the $23.89.

You also are accurate on the repeat passes. My goal is to get something heavy enough to go ahead and cut through any ground clutter on atleast the second trip. I have a feeling this unit will do it with the new blades and a little work on the 3 pt hitch.

 

[jenkinsph]

Sounds like a plan to me.:thumbsup: Are you going to disc it up before winter and let it lay fallow?

Might want to consider discing in some lime if you need it and give it time to react.

 

[deere5105]

The field recently turned under has not been utilized to grow a crop in quite some time. We have typically broken it up and spread wheat for hunting dove. We typically let it come up for the deer to eat. We have been planting one end in Rye Grass the past couple years also for the deer. We are considering planting Millet on this field next year for the dove.

Thanks again for all of the input and suggestions.

 

[F250DSLPWR]

You might consider welding a receiver hitch or metal loop onto the back of the frame. It is nice to disc and pull a drag harrow at the same time to level and break up any of the the clods and or pull a spreader with fertilizer around the first pass. Saves another trip.
For the blades you can just sharpen them with a grinder, even with those being worn down they will still work as long as you can get the depth you need. I do like the idea of going to bigger blades if they will fit. The cup on the blades are available in different amounts the more the cup the harder it will be to pull (scoops more dirt).

 

[deere5105]

You might consider welding a receiver hitch or metal loop onto the back of the frame. It is nice to disc and pull a drag harrow at the same time to level and break up any of the the clods and or pull a spreader with fertilizer around the first pass. Saves another trip.
For the blades you can just sharpen them with a grinder, even with those being worn down they will still work as long as you can get the depth you need. I do like the idea of going to bigger blades if they will fit. The cup on the blades are available in different amounts the more the cup the harder it will be to pull (scoops more dirt).

All good ideas. Most of the work I do is in smaller spaces with a lot of turns, food plots for deer. We have some bigger more open areas. We are contemplating trying to pick up a cultipacker for covering. As I was looking for a new disc I would have purchased the 22" blades. I see this as an opportunity to move up to the 22" since I would like to replace them anyway. I reasoned that since I saved by buying used versus new that I could justify putting a little into it to make it like I wanted. The unit I wound up with had a 4" x 4" frame which is what I wanted, but new was around $4500. Thanks for the ideas.

 

[HickoryNut]

I have about that same model Long disk that my dad bought new in 64, except mine has the hinged frame so you flop the back gangs up over the top. It came from the factory with 22 in 7 ga scalloped disks. I usually run it with less gang angle than you show but with one or two railroad track sections bolted to it, more cut less throw I guess.

 

[deere5105]

I have about that same model Long disk that my dad bought new in 64, except mine has the hinged frame so you flop the back gangs up over the top. It came from the factory with 22 in 7 ga scalloped disks. I usually run it with less gang angle than you show but with one or two railroad track sections bolted to it, more cut less throw I guess.

I tried to track down the manufacturer and found out they changed names once and then went out of business. I found W R Long in the same town and was able to speak to someone there that verified they were no longer in business. I would like to find out what the specifications were on this unit when it was new, but doubt I will be able to track that down. How did you determine this information on the unit you have?

 

[HickoryNut]

I know cause I replaced the first and only broken disk blade about ten years ago. I took one with me shopping and that was the closest match I found, although the scallops were not quite as deep on the new blade I bought. That is the only repair its ever had but then there are no rocks around here.

Very nice disk IMO. Glad you posted it, I had never seen another one like it before.

 

[deere5105]

Another disc question. I have searched and can not find where I saw it, but I believe I have seen comments regarding blades from India, 1070 Steel, .70 Carbon versus blades from Brazil, 1080 Steel, .80 Carbon and one being better than the other. I believe it was here on TBN but I have not been able to retrace the route to the thread. After a little quick measuring, I am concerned I may not be able to fit the 22" blades due to clearance at one location common on each gang. Further investigation will be required before deciding on 20" versus 22". Anyone have experience or input on the India blades versus Brazil blades. Information provided above comes from Agrisupply book.