CM backoff there is nothing I can do.
You can do what you have been doing- parsing out bits and pieces of information to all of us who get NOWHERE with our selling dealers or Kioti HQ. I do not have any special connection with Kioti. Call your dealer and order a banjo bolt. I ordered the one that is on the bottom of the HST filter.
That is a useful piece of info so some of us could try what you've done/are doing currently, you're the only one who knows what bolt you and or us should order /try and now I /we finally have that piece of info to use as we see fit. That's all I needed to know to begin with. That is all that was needed they can lookup the part number and I don't know what it is. You can also get yourself some M18 fittings and make up a bypass hose as desribed earlier and shown by kattywumpus (thanks for the details and images).
I'm not going to make up any fittings and do any testing myself- that is what my warranty should be covering and my dealer too. Except my warranty and my dealer and Kioti are all basically useless because they don't acknowledge a noise/squeal exists or if it did that it is something that needs to be fixed.
Now I don't think the bolt is the real problem. This is a restriction in the system and not good but this is not why my (I say my because none of you have tested yours)
I haven't tested my pressures because I cannot get my dealer to even understand why the noise occurs or when, even though I have explained it in detail, but they are just not listening or hearing what I'm telling them. As both you and I said: they are all hoping we will go away and off warranty, the sooner the better. I'd have them test the charge pressure or whatever you say to test, if they would do what they and I agreed to first- let me demonstrate the noise to them instead of their ridiculous routine of reving up to 2500rpms and then in high gear stomping the pedal to create a squeal. HST is low on charge pressure. Removing a restiction improves the flow and the supply to the HST precharge. In addition to reducing flow this restriction could also cause an oscillation (squeal or noise) in the lines.
The output of the power steering is the low pressure flow that supplies the HST precharge. Maybe your dealer thinks you mean the output of the power steering control valve to the steering cylinders.
I have no idea what he thinks- all I know is he read that part of your post and disagreed. I don't make the news, I merely pass along what I've been told to date. In a perfect systems this pressure should be identical to the HST precharge pressure (255 PSI). Any restrictions will add back pressure and 200+ PSI is almost 2x not what I want to see (that is one big oil heater).
We bring them a tractor and say there is an annoying squeal which I'll admit is subjective. They start up the tractor and mash the pedel down ... nope no squeal.
Incorrect- they said they DID hear a squeal at that rpm and under those exact conditions that they created, without me being present. After much debate you show it to them and how to reproduce it.
Haven't had the opportunity to do so- they already returned it to me with my grapple so I could use it. You must be doing something wrong. The squeal is subjective and easily deniable. Finally you convince someone and they go to work and try and fix the squeal. The amplitude and frequency of occurence starts off low but as we all know grows to even the slightest touch of the reverse pedel. How many service departments are going to take that much time?
If you bring your tractor in and say the charge relief pressure is low this is easily measured and verified. This is an objective problem there is no denying a measurement. Well I guess Kioti could issure an ECO thats modifies the value to say 205 PSI (that would be a huge mistake). Now you can't do this if you don't actually measure your tractor and know its low for sure.
And? So? Significance is what?
Ok so let me try and explain the real problem without all the details.
Why spare the details? Do you think we can't understand what you're getting at? This is what baffles me- why NOT include all the details so we can ALL be on the same playing field?! Your HST is a closed loop variable displacement pump and motor circuit. This circuit requires makeup oil to replace losses while operating. These losses vary depending on load and use. This is the flow in question and is controllerd by the charge relief valve. This valve should be closed until the pressure builds to 255 PSI. Once this happens the valve opens and passes the flow to the HSY case. Once the case fills with oil it overflows into the transmission and gears and back to the tank. If the relieve valve never fully closes then the pressure will only build to the remaining restriction. This leaves the HST with a reduced supply of fluid and under load conditions the HST can starve and cavitate. Just read through the desriptions in the "Service Manual". There are several places that identify low charge pressure with noise and a faulty or stuck charge relief valve. There is one problom though this valve is buried in the HST requires splitting the tractor and HST to examine (not good).
EXACTLY! So Kioti, if they are aware of the stuck or faulty charge relief valve being the most likely cause, may have chosen to obfuscate the issue and use the credible deny-ability until it no longer works or they have a class action against them when enough customers get fed up of real problems beginning to rear their ugly head in the form of destroyed HST's, or other side effects of the actual problem NOT being addressed.
I suspect Kioti knows this (not sure about our dealers they may be on the darkside of the moon with the rest of us). Kioti is trying to find a solution that does not hurt them.
AGREED. Tearing all these tractors down to fix the charge relief valve is a major hit to their margin. If they can improve flow maybe it will be good enough for us to go away (for now). After all we are not complaining about the charge pressure its the squeal. I suspect they found the banjo bolt restriction as did I and hoped it would do just that. Now for what ever reason they chose to change the hard line out entirely. Maybe this improves flow that much better. Maybe they did not consider just the bolt. By the way I have a larger hose and fittings than kattywumpus in my bypass maybe that accounts for the differing results. I won't know for sure until the parts arrive and hense the reason for delaying the solution or partial solution.
From what I have heard I am sure Kioti will back us but we need to bring them the real problem. They are not going to do extra work if they don't have to. All they need to do is nurse this along till the warrenty expires. This is not hard considereing the hours most of us put on the tractors per year.
Note: it is my understanding that hours are not a factor, the only thing that is is time since purchase.
One last comment- I'm NOT about to back off, and for your info I'm not on your case. Try for a minute to see things from the rest of our situation(s). We may not have your expertise, nor the time/ patience etc. to go make up fittings and test pressures at various places on our tractors. I for one would be willing to pay to have some tests performed while my tractor was at the dealer's but Saturday last it came home; and I'm not about to shell out $60hr each way to get it to the dealer and back again. So if my sense of urgency seems too much please do not take offense- I'm just trying to follow what you've done so I can bring what could have/ still needs to be done to my selling dealer.
YOU understand what you've done, but its all in YOUR head. I'm just trying to get it out on 'paper' so any of can read it as desired by anyone who wants to know more about what is going on. Additionally, I/we have no way of knowing where you get much of your info about what is going on in the HST, etc. other than it becoming clear that you seem to have referenced a parts book that I was not aware was available to the public. I do however own a shop and owner's manual, but have not tried to solve the squeal problem through their use.
If I have offended I apologize for doing so-it was not meant to offend; it was meant to get you to share more details than you seemed willing to. Mission accomplished:thumbsup:
So maybe we should refer to the problem in future as a charge relief pressure problem?
Your ball, in your court
Tom
