DK55 and KL1595 Loader

[ocaj11]

Just wanted to relay some info I received from my Kioti dealer today when I took the tractor back for the 50 hour service and some warranty work.

I have been EXTREMELY unhappy with the roll back power and angle of my KL1595 loader. Of course, after speaking with the dealer about it, he said that all of his customers that purchased that loader are very unhappy. He's trying to work with Kioti, but they're not being very cooperative. I've had my tractor for around 6 months and just now have 50 hours on it. I haven't used the loader for much dirt work and really just noticed the poor performance of the loader recently. If Kioti isn't doing anything to help the dealer out with unhappy customers, I'm not real hopeful that I can get anything done about the issue on my own.

The dealer has one customer that has ruined four of the dump/curl cylinders. He showed me one of the bolts in the cylinder that pulled into while the customer was stacking hay. Needless to say, any bolt that will pull into with a straight pull is faulty, especially given the limited weight the loader can handle. Kioti will replace the failed cylinders with the same model cylinder, but won't replace with a better cylinder. So, the dealer has bought aftermarket cylinders at his own expense to satisfy the customer. In the meanwhile, he has spoken with the loader manufacturer who points the finger at the cylinder manufacturer. The cylinder manufacturer ( I think he said Cross) won't speak with him about it.....

The new DK55s on his lot have Koyker loaders. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I'm afraid I'm going to be forced to live with the horrible performance of the loader or purchase after market cylinders that have a longer shaft. I really hate to purchase new cylinders for a brand new loader.

DK35Vince was able to make some new brackets for his loader (not a KL1595) to gain some rollback power. I will probably try to do something similar before I purchase new cylinders, but I would much rather Kioti send out a capable product in the first place.

The only other major problem I have with this tractor is the placement of the fuel tank. It's located directly below the seat and is exposed to sticks in a big way. The tank is plastic and has a long plastic neck. I thought this might be broken easily while I was bush hogging and I was right. Got home one evening and noticed it was broken off. I'm going to have to find a solution for that as well or keep my tractor in the fields and baby it.

As far as I'm concerned, these are two major design flaws. I'm starting to wonder what kind of testing is performed on these tractors because anyone who had actually used a tractor to work with before would not have sent these tractors out with these problems......

Other than the 3 point leveler being stuck, two hydraulic leaks, a pin vanishing from my 4WD lever rendering it useless, and the bleed screw on the primer pump breaking, the first 50 hours have been uneventful. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[KiotiJohn]

Sorry to hear you're having so many problems. KMW makes the loader, and I keep hoping Kioti can get them to make a satisfactory fix for them.
I've not heard anyone complaining about the fuel tank though. I hadn't noticed any problem with them, but then, I don't use one every day. Maybe you could make some sort of a shield to protect it from any sticks, etc.
I hope things make a turn for the better soon. John

 

[ocaj11]

Thanks John,

I'm really not bashing the tractor. I saw the fuel tank location when I purchased the tractor, but figured it would hold up. After using it, I'm convinced it won't and I will have to build a cage around it as you suggested. I can live with that and the other minor irritations. The tank will be replaced under warranty and the other problems will be fixed under warranty as well. To me, that's part of tractor ownership.

What I'm most upset about is the loader issues. I will be contacting Kioti next week to see if I can get anyone to listen.

The Good (much more good than bad):

Starts fast each and every time and the turbocharged diesel has power to spare. Also seems to sip the fuel.

The shuttle shift transmission is awesome.

I've yet to use low range. Medium 1 is too slow for me. What would Low 1 be used for???

The open platform operator station is very comfortable.

All the included options that are extra on the big 3 are nice and probably swayed me to purchase the Kioti over the Kubota.

I'll update the thread once I hear from the manufacturer and dealer.....

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I've yet to use low range. Medium 1 is too slow for me. What would Low 1 be used for???)</font>
Oh, pulling trees out by their roots, dragging REALLY big tree trunks all over your nice lawn, pulling your neighbors JD, Kubota or NH out of the muck he got it stuck in and couldn't get out of etc. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif John

 

[gmol]

I beefed immediatley about how terrible the 1595 was and my dealer got right on the phone as well as I e-mailed and called Kioti. My dealer got me a Woods loader at no cost. It too a fwe months because there were no after market loaders available at the time. A engineer from Kioti in Korea actually called me thinking I was a dealer and admitted they were having trouble with the loades and there was a new design with rounder lines and no self leveler. This was last spring.Stay on them , Kioti, they know these loades suck. Stay away from self leveling loaders. The Woods loader is awesome and makes the tractor much more functional. The only other unresolved problem is excessive smoking on start up and Kioti is supposedly working on this. They are very slow, read very slow, and coming up with fixes to problems, . Be paitint as they are good tracotrs.

 

[RedDog]

Did you try the tractor and loader out before you bought it? If you answer no, I didn't either before I bought. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

In fact, I had never seen a DK65 in person.

When I first received my tractor that was one of the first things that I noticed. Bucket didn't roll back, or tilt downward as far as my old Woods bucket on my Massey 65.

I thought it was going to be a problem until I tried it. I have always been able to get a full bucket of whatever I was doing. I moved large trees with the aid of the toothbar, with never any roll back issues. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I still say the DK55 and the new DK65 need curved loaders!!

It sounds like the 1595 loader must be junk. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif


RedDog

 

[LakeLanierBuddy]

I have tried for over a year now to get Kioti to honor the warranty on my 1595 Loader. I have exchanged emails with customer service, engineering, and others. I wrote a long letter to the president about this defective loader, and received no response from him or anyone else at Kioti. I have just got my attorney involved and have found out who the registered service agent is for Kioti tractor. I am planning to sue for replacement of the 1595 loader or a repurchase of the entire tractor loader and all. My experience with Kioti and the 1595 loader has shown me the true color of Kioti! If anyone would like to be listed or join with me in a class action lawsuit against Kioti concerning the Kioti 1595 Loader and Kioti's lack of action on a fix or repurchase then email me direct at coptermd47@bellsouth.net or post on TBN! It is clear that Kioti plans no action or recall of their defective 1595 loader!

 

[ocaj11]

Buddy,

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure Kioti understands the impact many unhappy customers can have in this day of the Internet. There are many, many people that come to this website to decide what tractor to purchase. If they ignore the problems with an obviously faulty loader design, the lawsuit is the only next remedy.

My dealer did not have nice things to say about the company. I really hope they decide to pay attention to this issue before it gets messy.

Keith Johnson

 

[ocaj11]

gmol,

I'm really glad you were able to get on the issue quickly and get a new loader at no cost. Sounds like you were more successful than Buddy.

I'll get started with the contact next week, but it really chaps my behind to have to do this.

I did try the tractor out at the lot before I purchased, but I didn't spend a lot of time with it. I drove for 20 minutes or so and thought it was nice. Should have put it through more testing I guess....

 

[RedDog]

Did any of you three that are complaining about the loader actually try one before buying?

RedDog

 

[KiotiJohn]

Buddy, I copied your post to e-mail and sent it to someone at Daedong in S. Korea. At least someone over there will see what's going on here.
They know about the problems with various loaders. They're made by KMW in Kansas. I wish THEY would get on the stick and fix these problems. You might consider writing to them to see if they can offer any information on a fix.
KMW Ltd.
535 West Garfield
P.O. Box 327
Sterling, KS 67579-0327
USA
Telephone: (620) 278-3641
Fax: (620) 278-2388
Email: inquiry@kmwloaders.com
John

 

[ocaj11]

RedDog,

Yes, I tried the loader functions out before I bought the tractor. My nearest Kioti dealer is 100 miles away. It's not like he can bring it out to the farm for a few days of test driving. But, even if he could/would, the cylinders on these loaders are junk and not designed well. It should not be my responsibility to determine if every component of the tractor was designed properly. You expect the manufacturer to figure that out before they start shipping the units. In addition, a purchase of a Kioti tractor should not be "buyer beware".

John,

I appreciate the info for the loader manufacturer. I'll send them my complaints as well. The dealer told me that KMW told him that Kioti ordered the cylinders that way. Whether right or wrong, they are pointing the finger to Kioti where the ultimate responsibility lies.

 

[LakeLanierBuddy]

John, I have talked and exchanged email with the president's secretary about the 1595 Loader roll back problem. The president gave it to an engineer and I was assured it would be fixed, in a few weeks. That was around the first of 2005 or around the time I exchanged private mail with you on the problem. I can't understand Kioti not going ahead and recalling these defective 1595 loaders, except maybe for the sheer numbers involved! The DK55C and Dk55 have been very good sellers for Kioti and the Tractors are great but whoever contracted with Kansas Machine Works for the workup on the 1595 loader should have used one of them after it was mated with the tractor. I am sure if Kioti had made them they would have tested them before selling them all over North America. This problem is going to get into some pocket-books, be it Kioti or KMW, as the number of 1595 loaders made and sold is high. I bet mine gets fixed or bought back soon! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[LakeLanierBuddy]

REDDOG-----My dealer did not have any in stock so I had to buy and wait for him to go to NC to pick the DK55C and 1595 Loader up!

 

[depratt_equip]

I don't know if it is an isolated problem with the 1595 loaders or not. We have not seen nor had one complaint about the KL1595 loader. Customers that do have them have been using them extensively. One in a landfill and several others on there farms. I just recently spoke with them and asked them how the tractor and loader was doing and they had nothing bad to speak of about either.

I have heard of several breaking, and Kioti has replaced them. Not quite sure if it was customer imporper usage or not. On the flip side I have also seen other brands of loaders fail, mostly from improper usage. Not saying this is your case at all though. Not quite sure why Kioti hasn't done anything about yours, but hopefully someone will read KiotiJohns email and get you patched back up. I would make sure your dealer stays on top of Kioti and gets an answer.

 

[RedDog]

I wonder if the cylinders on the 1730 loader would fit 1595 loader? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Probably not, I'm sure a dealer would have tried that.


RedDog

 

[psuedofarmer]

have a DK55c w/ the KL1595 loader - nearly 300 hrs on the machine in 8 months. usage includes logging, field reclamation, moving HUGE piles of dirt and granite.

have not had the problems with the FEL reported by members of the forum.. having said that, it's also possible that my expectations are skewed because this is my first tractor with a FEL, so perhaps i'm not keen on the expectations of what the loader can do/not do. i'll post pics of the loader carrying maple trees that are 18 ft long and 5 feet wide with no adverse affects.

it's possible that some (and not all) cylinders used by Kioti for the FEL are sub-par. the dealers are the first line of defense, and IMHO, are always willing to do what it takes to keep the customer happy. having said that, it behooves Kioti to listen to the dealers, and their customers.

and as someone pointed out, this forum (along with the Internet in general) is a prime marketing tool. it was instrumental in the decision to purchase the DK55c over the L5030.

my $.02.

pf

 

[ocaj11]

My loader still works as it was designed, the problem is the lift/curl cylinder.

Take a look at the lift/curl cylinders. About 8/10 inches up from the bucket side, you will see a weld bead. That weld is where the cylinder shaft stops, so you have a very, very short cylinder shaft. That short cylinder is the entire problem in my opinion. I've used tractors with front end loaders for 20+ years and I've never encountered a FEL with such a low roll back angle. On my loader, and I'm sure on the others, the dump angle is more than enough with the bottom of the bucket approachig a 90 degree angle with the ground. On the other hand, the bottom of the bucket when the loader is curled probably approaches a 25 degree angle. This allows me to get about 1/2 bucket full of material and I lose some of that 1/2 in transit.

As for the up/down lift capacity, I have no issues with that aspect. I haven't tied off to something really heavy and tried, but I'm sure it's stout according to the specs.

The break out force of the loader curl seems to be week to me. This could be perception because I haven't used it for a bunch of dirt work, just enough to know that it' not right.

 

[psuedofarmer]

<font color="blue">..On the other hand, the bottom of the bucket when the loader is curled probably approaches a 25 degree angle. This allows me to get about 1/2 bucket full of material and I lose some of that 1/2 in transit.
</font>

i see your point more clearly now.. (helps to be sitting in the tractor as i write this, moving 20 yards of dirt). as you pointed out, it's a design worthy of further engineering. perhaps the folks @ kioti are reading this..

if i had more experience working with FELs i would find a few things that should be changed, this may be one of them.

pf

 

[KiotiJohn]

It's strange to me that there would be any reluctance on Kioti's part to do something in this case as they have been excellent in solving all the problems of which I'm aware, and that's a good number. They have taken care of most things in a pretty fast manner except once when they had lost some longer term techs and had a lot of newbies in. Other than that, they've stood behind the dealers and customers pretty well, albeit at times dealers have had to wait a while for an answer. With 250 dealers to support, I can see why it may take time for an answer sometimes, but this has gone on for a while.
I'm also surprised that it's the 1595 as only a couple of people have contacted me about problems with this one. A few other models have left a lot to be desired in the rollback angle and power, but not the 1595.
I'm confident something good will occur as I know the good workers at Kioti want things to go well. John