Do it yourself?

[radioman]

Having a BH sitting around gives you a sense of security. Everytime something happens, you can now say NO PROBLEM, just hook up and go to work and GIT ER DONE! Having aBH on my BX24 was worth it. I have been using it for little things around the house instead of my back andd it sure is fun to use. As for you needing to get a trench done, you probably would break even if not aheada and then you will have a new toy to play with for other projects. You probably will have other new possiblities pop up with a new can do attitude. Get the BH , no question about it. it will make your 20k machine worth it.

 

[KeithInSpace]

...something happens, you can now say NO PROBLEM...it will make your 20k machine worth it.

I've told the story about the 220V line going from my house to the septic tank ejector pump...

CHRISTMAS EVE: Smelled something funky and finally tracked it down to the pretty green grass on the downhill side of my pump access riser. Turned out that my sprinkler contractor had severed the power and control wires 3 months prior and I had been spilling raw poopie in the side yard the entire time. Honestly, don't ask me how I didn't notice. I mow around there every time.

Anyway, it turned out that he had direct buried the wires under MAYBE 6 inches of dirt. And that is being kind.

I had my electrician (who was conveniently working on the basement wiring) do an emergency patch job and I set about trenching a wonderful conduit line to replace the direct-bury cable. It runs only about 50 feet. The trench took maybe an hour. Cleaning it up took 15 minutes. Laying the conduit and installing the wires took another 30 minutes. Rewiring it took another 30 minutes, and backfill/compaction took maybe 30 minutes.

If I didn't have my backhoe, I either would have re-buried new wires under the same 6" of cover, or I would have spent 10 hours digging that trench by hand. I would not have gone through the trouble of renting a unit...would have been too big to work in the confined space anyway. ONLY THE BX WOULD FIT.

My wife was quite impressed.

 

[LBrown59]

can do attitude.
*Get the BH , no question about it.
**it will make your 20k machine worth it.

*Yup.
**It will make a tractor out of your machine .

 

[spk64]

As a side note, if you do decide to use a trencher do not get a walk behind. They will beat you up and most walk behinds will not cut as deep as you are talking.

MarkV

Absolutely!
Prior to getting my BX24 I had ~200 feet of trench for a new electric service to my shop. Rented a walk behind and could barely scratch the hard dry ground. Immediatly returned it to the rental mart and they let me upgrade to a drive behind. Much quicker and still struggled with a few roots.

That being said if I had my BX then that would have been my tool of choice even though it would have been a bigger trench and a little more mess and time. I would not think twice about using the BH around the house now for trenching, or any other digging for that matter. Along with the countless other chores and projects that have been completed.

I now kick myself for not buying one 10-15 years earlier.

 

[PILOON]

Well I have laid a few water lines over the years.
Located north of Montreal, Que Can.
We tend to pump our water up from our lake and as such often we hit solid bedrock as shallow as 16" deep, so I needed to find solutions.
What has worked very well is - (trench as deep as possible, but often results in a mere 16 inch trench).
Add sand to a few inches over the pipe and then cover with 2 inches of high density foam about 16-24" wide with pipe centered underneith.
Fill with sand to create a slight mound.
If on a slope make barriers every so often to prevent erosion as water will want to wash down the fill.
Don't walk or compact the snow over the pipeway as for sure it will then freeze as snow will insulate.
Use well pipe 1/4" wall supply line as it is as tough as copper supply and much more affordable.(comes in 300 ft spools)
If really worried about freezing you can add an internal heated tracing wire that is self regulating and even lay the whole thing on the surface without any digging.
We have actually done that where there was simply no soil to bury a line! (true we wrapped the heated line in foam wrap to prevent heat loss and save on hydro costs)

The new heated tracing lines are self regulating thermoplastics with generally 3 or 6 watts per foot.
They only heat the footage that is about to freeze hence the operating costs are very low.

Many proven options as you can see.

Good luck, and sorry if I am defeating your backhoe purchase logic.

 

[LBrown59]

Absolutely!
Prior to getting my BX24 I had ~200 feet of trench for a new electric service to my shop. Rented a walk behind and could barely scratch the hard dry ground. Immediatly returned it to the rental mart and they let me upgrade to a drive behind. Much quicker and still struggled with a few roots.

That being said if I had my BX then that would have been my tool of choice even though it would have been a bigger trench and a little more mess and time. I would not think twice about using the BH around the house now for trenching, or any other digging for that matter. Along with the countless other chores and projects that have been completed.

I now kick myself for not buying one 10-15 years earlier.

I didn't want to kick myself so I bought a BX23 over the BX2230.

 

[dodge man]

You guys have convinced me, I just have to convince my better half.

 

[CurlyDave]

When laying this pipe another thing to consider is that water velocities of greater than 5 feet per second should be avoided, and 7 feet per second is an absolute upper limit. This is more for erosion control in PVC pipe than pressure loss.

I have found that this criteria usually produces a requirement for a larger pipe than a simple pressure drop calculation.


These guys: PVC Pipe Pressure Loss Calculator have a nice on-line calculator and mention the erosion issue.

 

[Botabill]

To trench 600 plus feet 4 feet with a backhoe on a BX will take a long time unless the digging is easy. Regardless... the job can be done more economically by renting a small excavator. Having said that... Iif you want a backhoe get it. You only live once.

 

[ray66v]

You guys have convinced me, I just have to convince my better half.

I was not able to convince my wife, until one day, when we spent 4.5 hours shoveling snow off the the driveway. We got buried, and she had to get to work. The whole time, I kept saying "You know, if we had a backhoe, this would be easy" At about the 3.5 hour point, she broke, and said: "WHY DON'T YOU JUST BUY THE *** THING!!!!", I really wanted to tell her that I already had, but I just said: ok.

Now, she thinks we don't need an airplane.

 

[LBrown59]

*****Now, she thinks we don't need an airplane.

*****Don't let her think you don't need anything else or you will be up to your ears in stuff .

 

[2COR517]

I second the mini excavator. I did my own power line with a Kubota KX 121-3 (I think) a few years ago. About 300 feet, and it was very easy digging in fresh sandy fill. Only two feet deep. Still took better part of a day. 650 feet 4+ feet deep with a small hoe is a lot of moving and setting up. Of course, you should still get the hoe for other stuff...........

 

[kmdigital]

You don't need to be 4.5' deep in the yard or untraveled areas. I'm in northern Indiana, and it will never freeze that deep unless the ground is severly compacted. However, if you go under a driveway or anywhere the soil is compacted, 4.5' may not be deep enough.

I've dug up yards in the dead of winter, and under a few inches of snow, the dirt won't be frozen more then about 12" deep, but I have seen it freeze 4' under driveways in extended cold snaps. Personally, I would go about 4' deep, and you will be fine. And if you decide to go that extra 6", trust me, that is one heck of a lot of digging for a lousy 6", especially over 650' of distance. The first 3-1/2 to 4' of digging is the easy part, and once you get beyond that, it is a lot of dirt moving and much, much more work. Plus it's a lot harder to climb in and out of the trench!

As for pipe, personally I wouldn't use PVC pipe. I've seen too many problems over time, especially if the pressure exceeds ~ 60 PSI. It doesn't like the continuous stress of these pressures, and eventually something fails. Now if you want to use Sch 80, you will be fine, but that is $$$$. I would only use either Polyethelene with the highest available pressure rating, typically 160 PSI, or better, PEX pipe. PEX is the best, but could get pricey for that distance, and isn't really required for cold water.

 

[john_bud]

If you need to pay $1500-2000 for labor to get it done professionally, that could be used to help offset the purchase price of the hoe.

ALWAYS buy the tool if you can afford it. If you can't afford it, save up.

You will be moving that tractor about 300 times during the project as the flat bottom is not very large on a BX machine. It would be easier on a larger machine, but hey, you use what ya got.

jb

 

[mbohuntr]

I rented a 'bota with a hoe and put in 2 waterlines 4' deep, NO PROBLEM! that beastie has got plenty of power! I suggest you put a mark on the stick at 4' so you won't have to get off and measure. and bury it in sand above and below so a small stone won't ruin your day. Think of the side jobs $$$$

 

[NuBota]

I normally do the same as Keith and calculate the value of my time in project costs. But I also look at the value and reward from doing a project myself - which I don't believe has been mentioned in this thread yet.

Definitely calculate your time in terms of dollars, but also consider the seat time with a new backhoe. Even if slow, consider it BH training time. More backfill work? More FEL experience.

Furthering Keith's basement example - I am in the process of finishing my basement. Not in a rush, it has been unfinished for years. I completely STINK as a carpenter. The time I put in will far exceed what would be a reasonable cost calculation. But the experience is very important to me. I already see improvements in my ability and the pace is quickening. Plus I got a cool nail gun out of the deal. And I have learned a ton about building codes. This will all come in handy when I go to build my pole barn

Another example - I still do most of my own vehicle maintenance. Not to just save money - but to make sure it is done right. A 19.99 oil change is great till the kid "mechanic" leaves the drain plug loose. There is some value in knowing a job is done right.

-Eric

 

[LBrown59]

I have learned a ton about building codes.
-Eric

We don't have any building codes to learn about.

 

[BigD23]

We don't have any building codes to learn about.

A friend of mine had to completely gut a 2 year project of his because of not worrying about building codes...

Don

 

[Ace3]

For what its worth, my two cents. My son had to install a 350' waterline at his house. We looked into a backhoe for my B3030 (about $7000), renting an excavator, or contracting it out. After all was said and done we contracted the work out to a waterline contractor. They used an underground drilling machine to drill a hole from the road to the house. There were only 2 small holes dug, one at the road for the start and one at the house for the end. After the hole was drilled they attached the waterline to the drill and pulled the line back to the start. The great part was that there was no ditch with all of the mess and piles of dirt to clean up. They did the whole job in less than one day and it only cost $2500. Unless you just want to play with your equipment and you have a lot of time, you might want to look into this option.

 

[john_bud]

Hey hey hey hey now ACE3!

You're new here so I'll cut you some slack. We're supposed to talk him into BUYING MORE EQUIPMENT. It's not about getting the job done quickly, cheaply and with no messing up the yard. If we want that type of advice, we'll ask our wives!

jb