Driverless Cars

[cqaigy2]

On top of known and potential threats to drivers and bystanders, I just ran across yet another issue that I hadn't thought of before:
Autonomous Vehicles Might Drive Cities to Financial Ruin | WIRED

Parking fees and tickets are holding those cities together?

 

[oosik]

I had a positive thought on this topic. The way the "average public" is driving now-a-days - - driverless is certain to reduce accidents and resulting injuries/deaths. A good thing??? I wonder.

 

[Travelover]

I had a positive thought on this topic. The way the "average public" is driving now-a-days - - driverless is certain to reduce accidents and resulting injuries/deaths. A good thing??? I wonder.

Ironically, an all autonomous vehicle system would probably drive the yearly traffic 30,000+ death toll way, way down. But the minute one person dies as a result of a malfunction, everyone will go nuts. Conversely if we had initially had autonomous vehicles and someone suggested to just let everyone drive willy-nilly that would seem crazy. Change is hard.

 

[3930dave]

Bruce

Thanks, I don't think I've ever actually seen the video of the event.

I recall sitting in my car at lunchtime later that week, listening to an aviation expert discussing the crash. He was illustrating the new world of fly by wire with examples. One concerned limits on pilot maneuvers - at a certain angle of banking, the computer would decide "no, that exceeds civil aviation limits, all you get is xy degrees, maximum) - normally no pilot would put a plane into that extreme of a position, but with fly by wire, the option during emergencies is removed.

If I want to avoid a sudden on-road problem (ex. truck drops an axle, and stops NOW), with what I drive today I can drive into a field, or onto a lawn etc to avoid a worse impact. Will future vehicle systems still allow (without delay) such actions ?

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Parking fees and tickets are holding those cities together?

Depends on the city...... I know that the police budget in Toronto surpassed $1Billion/year, and many northern cities have serious infrastructure problems - just keeping up with roads/bridges burns up tons of money, for starters....

Despite many pols liking to cast conventional vehicles as evil, that Wired article recaps how virtually all levels of govt love to tax the __________ out of those same evil items.

I can see lobbying coming up....... "Driverless cars must have at least one passenger", etc.....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I had a positive thought on this topic. The way the "average public" is driving now-a-days - - driverless is certain to reduce accidents and resulting injuries/deaths. A good thing??? I wonder.

As I probably posted earlier - once I thought about where the bar is set (real-world) for humans, I revised my thinking about how fast these technologies are going to be rolled out.

I'm generally not a fan of Lowest Common Denominator thinking, but ^, it is what it is.....

Rgds, D.

 

[cqaigy2]

If I want to avoid a sudden on-road problem (ex. truck drops an axle, and stops NOW), with what I drive today I can drive into a field, or onto a lawn etc to avoid a worse impact. Will future vehicle systems still allow (without delay) such actions ?

Rgds, D.

This situation isn't what you describe, but some years ago. A neighbors son was telling me of an accident he had gotten into with his pickup. He had been driving downtown, during a busy night, when another vehicle swerved into his lane. He reacted by swerving to his right, away from the vehicle, into a power pole on the sidewalk. He said that if it hadn't been for the power pole, he probably would not had any damage to his pickup. I said, that it could be that the power pole kept him from running people over, that were walking on the sidewalk. He kinda blanched, and said, 'maybe so, as it had been a very busy night'.

 

[majorwager]

Driverless truck

 

[3930dave]

This situation isn't what you describe, but some years ago. A neighbors son was telling me of an accident he had gotten into with his pickup. He had been driving downtown, during a busy night, when another vehicle swerved into his lane. He reacted by swerving to his right, away from the vehicle, into a power pole on the sidewalk. He said that if it hadn't been for the power pole, he probably would not had any damage to his pickup. I said, that it could be that the power pole kept him from running people over, that were walking on the sidewalk. He kinda blanched, and said, 'maybe so, as it had been a very busy night'.

Agreed - all choices behind the wheel need to be made with care.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Driverless truck

Different topic, but I'm ok with a bit of drift......

People make mistakes too, and esp. with loading trailers....... Youtube could run a channel on nothing but trailer loading goof ups.....

A friend of mine had a truck and trailer roll away years ago. He was loading a car on a trailer on a sloped road, and didn't chock any wheels. Pickup was 2wd, so when the car (heavy older one) got enough load on the back of the trailer, it lifted the rear wheels of the pu enough so that the truck and trailer started rolling down the hill on the front wheels of the truck and trailer wheels.

Nobody hurt, and minimal equipment damage, but it's a lesson he'll never forget.....

Rgds, D.

 

[Atchuuu]

Many people say they would never drive an autonomous vehicle even if available and affordable.

I'm willing to bet they will and so is every manufacturer, many venture capitalists and startups.

Once the insurance companies have proof that self driving cars are safer then human driven cars you will be paying much higher premiums to drive yourself. At that point drivers will start to recognize the benefits.

 

[airbiscuit]

Not only lower insurance premiums, lower cost of use. Instead of buying a car, you will buy a car time share from a pool of vehicles. It will deliver itself to you need it - from economy car to luxury to SUV to truck, etc. Older folks who still live at home, but no longer drive will love it.

 

[Atchuuu]

Not only lower insurance premiums, lower cost of use. Instead of buying a car, you will buy a car time share from a pool of vehicles. It will deliver itself to you need it - from economy car to luxury to SUV to truck, etc. Older folks who still live at home, but no longer drive will love it.

Exactly. Interesting that when talking about self driving cars many people don't seem to be interested in a car that drives itself. But mention things like valet and self parking and you get a different response. How about a car that drops you off at the mall entrance then goes to park itself. When you are done you call up the car on your key fob or phone and it comes right back to get you. Who wouldn't like that feature?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Many people say they would never drive an autonomous vehicle even if available and affordable.

I'm willing to bet they will and so is every manufacturer, many venture capitalists and startups.

Once the insurance companies have proof that self driving cars are safer then human driven cars you will be paying much higher premiums to drive yourself. At that point drivers will start to recognize the benefits.

Before they take away my driver licenses I hope the autonomous vehicles rule the day and I can have access to one.

 

[vvanders]

Exactly. Interesting that when talking about self driving cars many people don't seem to be interested in a car that drives itself. But mention things like valet and self parking and you get a different response. How about a car that drops you off at the mall entrance then goes to park itself. When you are done you call up the car on your key fob or phone and it comes right back to get you. Who wouldn't like that feature?

Yup, I also really like the idea of giving back mobility to people who can't drive today but where a Taxi just isn't feasible, esp out in the rural areas.

These side benefits of tech can be pretty awesome. When I worked at UPS back in '04 we had a guy there who was mute. He was the only person I knew who owned a Blackberry but wasn't one of the suits. This is before texting really exploded and with that device he could just whip up a response and show it to you before you even knew he was typing. It was a lifeline to all his family/friends as he could use email to keep in touch from anywhere.

I was big into cellphone tech at the time(Palm Treos, Windows Phone, etc) and it floored me to see something like that used in a way I hadn't thought of to improve someone's quality of life so significantly.

 

[3930dave]

Once vehicles are fully autonomous (Level 5, IIRC), technically and legally, the options are almost unlimited.....

I may be retired by then, but for me I'd be interested in commuting options with Level 5. Buy one with a sleep chamber - if a high-paying job is 3 hours away, no problem !

As much as I will continue to poke at the technology with a sharp stick (well, not really only that..... more so tilting at the windmill of people's blind-faith in tech ....), what may take longer to fully settle out are the Legal issues.

We can have bad Winter storms here, that fully able-bodied people think twice about heading out in. Where does the liability lie when a non-driving senior with major health issues gets stranded in a Winter storm, and perishes ? We've touched on this aspect a bit here, but that example highlights the case of someone who not only does not hold a DL any longer, but may not have any real driving skills still available, even in an emergency.

One response can be "The trip shouldn't have been initiated to begin with", with some validity. People of all ages and abilities can and do make sub-optimal driving decisions already.... I just don't want to see people making more of them by putting on the Blind-Faith in Technology Blinders......

I don't think the Elephant in the Room has been mentioned...... Want to go the bar, and have a dozen drinks ? Legally, I'd say that will be the acid-test for Level 5.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Not only lower insurance premiums, lower cost of use. Instead of buying a car, you will buy a car time share from a pool of vehicles. It will deliver itself to you need it - from economy car to luxury to SUV to truck, etc. Older folks who still live at home, but no longer drive will love it.

Insurance is usually a big factor for many people.

Insurers discount for accident free/ticket free records. What I'd like to find is an insurer that will discount even further for track-based advanced driver training (high speed collision avoidance, etc.....).

I do understand the general trend though..... driving is just another example of where we are removing human involvement.

Rgds, D.

 

[LouNY]

From what I've seen and read the current and even projected self driving will not be able to operate on snow covered roads, back roads without lane marking lines or shoulder striping and no way whats so ever are they capable of traveling dusty dirt roads.
So I don't expect to see many on my roads.

 

[oosik]

I see an awful lot of dreaming, hoping and skylarking here. There WILL be a "line in the sand" beyond which driverless autos will not be cost effective or even functional.

I see transition points established around cities that do have driverless vehicles. Park your auto at the transition point and continue into the city in a driverless vehicle.

Don't think that will happen - - then ask yourself - - why doesn't mass transportation provide service out to every man-jack living out in the country.

Driverless autos will function under the same restrictions because they are also a form of mass transit.

 

[3930dave]

I see an awful lot of dreaming, hoping and skylarking here. There WILL be a "line in the sand" beyond which driverless autos will not be cost effective or even functional.

I see transition points established around cities that do have driverless vehicles. Park your auto at the transition point and continue into the city in a driverless vehicle.

Don't think that will happen - - then ask yourself - - why doesn't mass transportation provide service out to every man-jack living out in the country.

Driverless autos will function under the same restrictions because they are also a form of mass transit.

Good pragmatic summation :thumbsup:

Rgds, D.