Driving a well point?

[zmoz]

Dumb question from a city boy. Recently our city water bill has gone through the roof, in fact, I believe we pay the most in the country. We're talking ~$200/month for water/sewer. They bill the sewer based on the water I use...without taking into account how much of that ends up on the lawn, and not in the sewer.

Anyway, that means my lawn will be brown this summer unless I can come up with something else. I was thinking about trying to drive a well point like this:
Watersource Stainless Steel Well Point — For 1 1/4in. Pipe, Model# WP3680 | Well Points | Northern Tool + Equipment
to use purely for irrigation. From what I've been able to read about other wells in the area, the ground water level is about 20-25' in this area with clay soil.

Can I honestly pound this thing into the ground about 30' and expect to suck water out of it? That just seems too easy. If that's the case I don't know why I've been putting fancy city water on my lawn all these years! Do you just use regular galvanized pipe? I guess if I accidently hit a rock, I'm pretty much screwed and have to start over somewhere else?

 

[bp fick]

I don't know your area, but driving points are typically successful in sand/gravel area. Driving through clay is likely impossible.

The reason this works is that a thick layer of sand, 20-25 feet, with a harder pan at that point traps and hold ground water. It isn't particularly potable and usually is polluted with high levels of nitrates, which is a serious chemical to be avoided, especially concerning developing children and babies.

But for irrigation of lawns, it is about perfect. You are re-cycling the ground water over and over, although losing some to evaporation.

I have driven wells as deep as 75', although I don't encourage it. It is hard work. I use driving coupling and a widow maker; heavy weighted pipe with two handles. Using a post hole digger to pilot the first 3 feet is a blessing.

Ask around with old time neighbors. See if anyone has done a driven well in your area first. In clay areas with high water tables, a dug well with crocks works well. Best regards.

 

[bp fick]

Ask your water department about a double meter. Many municipalities allow the installation of a second meter, just for the exterior irrigation. This saves you the sewer computation on that portion. You should also know that this isn't a cheap install, typically $500-700, which means your payback is way out there, 5 years or more.

The reason sand/gravel areas (with a ground water catch layer of harder pan down 25-30 feet) can produce water is that this sand/gravel top layer allows the ground water to quickly flow to the driven well point. BTW, those points are typically called "sand points". If the subsoil is not porous, the ground water cannot flow fast enough to the point to provide any meaningful pump rate.

 

[zmoz]

The reason sand/gravel areas (with a ground water catch layer of harder pan down 25-30 feet) can produce water is that this sand/gravel top layer allows the ground water to quickly flow to the driven well point. BTW, those points are typically called "sand points". If the subsoil is not porous, the ground water cannot flow fast enough to the point to provide any meaningful pump rate.

That makes sense...but how do I know what's 30 feet underground? There aren't really any wells around here since 90% of the houses were built within the last 15 years and they're all on city water. I found an online listing of all the wells in the area with the ground water level at each, there aren't any real close to me but they're all in the 20-30' range.

All I know about the soil really is that it's clay, followed by harder clay for the first 8 feet or so. That's the deepest I've ever dug down. But if the water table is at 20-30', wouldn't that mean there must be some sand/gravel in that area?

Even if I could get a really low flowing well I would be happy. I have a ~2000 gallon pond I could use as a storage tank and pull water from the well constantly.

I'm not sure I'm even "allowed" to have a water well where I live, but I don't plan on asking anyone's permission if I can do it myself. The water department is totally raping us, they can't come up with a good reason why, and EVERYBODY is outraged. I like the idea of a second irrigation meter if they offer one, but around here I would guess the connection fee is extremely high.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

I've been thinking of trying to drive a well for some time now, but need to find enough time to give it a try. Really wanted to do it before it got too hot, but missed that opportunity and now I'll be sweating up a storm unless I wait until the fall -- south Texas is already in the 90s. Anyway, I found this site when doing my research for the project:

Water Well Helpline

Lot's of information for the DIYer out there. Good luck with yours and I'll try to post something if I ever get around to doing anything.

 

[yomax4]

I put in a sand point some years back. It really needs to be put down in sand. I used an old used point to get down most of the way. Then I used my loader to pull it out and installed a nice new Stainless point. Gently pounded it back down. Worked fantastic and the water tests great every year. Here is a tip. You have to screw several pipes together to get down 20-30', When you get the point all the way down. Insert a length of inexpensive plastic pipe down inside the pipe to the point. This eliminates leaks and corrosion. Then you must have a check valve on your pump and hook right to the plastic pipe. Make sure you buy a pump that will pump the depth you have set your point. I have used this at my cabin for years.

 

[bp fick]

Before you begin, you really, really, really need to interview old timers in the area. If no one has ever had a driven well in the area, there's likely a good reason. The old time local hardware guy likely knows too, because if there are driven wells, he has sold them points, drive couplings, 1 1/4 pipe in 6' length to drive down, the driving cap, (goes on top to protect pipe threads, then gets replace by coupling, next section added, driving cap goes on top and the process starts again) and other hardware. That guy has also sold them shallow well jet pumps, check valves and tanks. If none of this stuff is being sold in your area, that's a pretty good indicator that it isn't a locale that will make a good candidate. The whole set up is around $600 minimum.

Sandy areas, around lakes and ponds, cottages "up north" fit the bill. An area with clay on the surface, just isn't fit for driving a shallow well.

Again, you don't give your area, so there's isn't much more help one can give.

 

[jbooth]

You might try digging down about 8-10 ft. with one of the old twist augers to see what you find. I used to put cased wells in by digging down with an auger till I hit sand and then used a sand bailer to go on down. Put one well down around 50 ft. We used an 8" auger to allow clearance for a 6" casing but you could get by with a lot smaller one. Most of the twist augers had 3/4" inch pipe as the shaft and you would need to aquire pipe extensions for your auger. Was a bit labor intensive but so is hammering a point down. You might also contact some well drillers in the area for a bit of geology education. Noticed in your post you were aware of the geology for the 1st 8 ft or so, so you might need to auger a bit farther than 8-10 ft.

 

[The Dougster]

Since the OP did not identify just where in the Nation he lives, and since everyone is on a public supply system, it's my guess that a point driven well might be futile.
First and foremost, check the local geology... does your State have a DNR agency? Where do well drillers send their drillers logs? To assume there is available water a few feet below land surface is quite a stretch... research your project before doing anything.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Amazon.com: Seymour Mfg. AU-S6 Post Hole Auger: Home Improvement

Read the comments. Everyone seems to think it’s easy. See also:

How to Drill Your Own Shallow Irrigation Well | eHow.com

A ten foot by six inch hole is less than two cubic feet of dirt, less than three five gallon pails.

 

[zmoz]

I am in Oregon, and I have been looking at water level data provided by the water resources department. There is a listing of every well drilled in my area, and the closest one is about 1/2 mile away. It was drilled in 1952. They say the static water level is 30 feet. There are a select few other wells in the area, many of them in the 30' range, but again, they are few and far between. Basically my city is in a valley, all the people outside the city limits who have wells are about 1000 feet higher in elevation than I am, so I don't consider that data relevant.

I do know one thing: It rains, it rains, and it rains here. That water is hiding somewhere.

Before you begin, you really, really, really need to interview old timers in the area. If no one has ever had a driven well in the area, there's likely a good reason. The old time local hardware guy likely knows too, because if there are driven wells, he has sold them points, drive couplings, 1 1/4 pipe in 6' length to drive down, the driving cap, (goes on top to protect pipe threads, then gets replace by coupling, next section added, driving cap goes on top and the process starts again) and other hardware. That guy has also sold them shallow well jet pumps, check valves and tanks. If none of this stuff is being sold in your area, that's a pretty good indicator that it isn't a locale that will make a good candidate. The whole set up is around $600 minimum.

LOL, there are no "old timers" in the area to interview. I've been here since '89, and that puts me in the top 5% of poeple who have lived here the longest. There have been no wells drilled because city water pipes are plentiful, and, it may in fact be illegal to drill a new well where I'm at. The vast majority of the former population has been replaced in the last decade, by californians *sigh*, and, the old guy at the hardware store was replaced by Home Depot many years ago.

City water didn't used to cost as much as gas, so people in the past have always been inclined to use it rather than drill a well. My water useage hasn't changed in the last decade, but it's gone from being a small bill, to a car payment.

I may even think about one of those DIY gas powered drillers, but, that's a bit more than I was wanting to do...

 

[Egon]

They say the static water level is 30 feet.

this well could be much deeper than 30 feet before water was encountered.

Consider water jetting.

 

[bp fick]

Anything deeper than 25 feet puts you out of range for the simple jet pump's lift capabilities.

 

[John White]

I am in sort of the same boat too. I need to get away from using city water to wash out my tanker truck some times. I think I would hit water at around 20' to 25'. I am thinking of digging as deep as I can with my little back hoe, which would be about 12' and then see what it would cost to have some one with a big track hoe that could dig another 10 or 15'. I have a 32" PVC solid culvert about 40" long and I made a cement top (cap) for it with a reducing hole down to 8" and bring it on up to grade with the 8" pvc pipe I have on hand. My thought is that I would have more reserve than just driving a well point down. Will this work or not? I am not fimular with shallow well pumps. Does only 1 line run from the well to the pump or does it require 2, like a jet pump?

 

[Egon]

You would be better off just bringing in the large hoe to start.

Do some google searches for jet pumps for more information.:thumbsup:

The max lift for a centrifugal pump will be a little less than the atmospheric pressure.

 

[bp fick]

A drive point, also called a sand point, for good reason, coupled with a shallow well pump, is designed to work and work efficiently only in an area of sandy/gravelly soils where there is soil saturated with a known high water table. The water must be of sufficient quantity to flow quickly through the gravelly soil below, flooding the little sand point grill with water. Think of putting it into a saturated sponge and sucking out the ample water. There is but a single water line.

Such "wells" are typically only 20 feet deep as 25 feet is the maximum lift in such "well" systems. Driven sand points are not an answer to getting water unless your immediate area fits the above description.

A sand point in not a drilled well looking for a deep view, nor a dug well designed to collect a large volume of water in a water crock or pit. It's column of water is very small, thus, again, requiring it to be pushed into a water saturated soils, located just below the surface, relatively speaking.

 

[jenkinsph]

I would check with the local well drillers to find out what they know about this.

Years ago my dad and I drove a point down in an area known to be good and were sucessful. We went down the first 12 feet with a 6" auger on our tractor and made extension to dig down. The first 9 to 10 ft was a clay soil that was so good we could unwind it from the auger when it was pulled up in one piece. So I would think that having a clay layer on top might not necessarily be a bad thing. Just depends on where the water is coming from, if in your case it may be coming down from the higher hills you may have a flow well. But don't get your hopes to high.

 

[zmoz]

Just depends on where the water is coming from, if in your case it may be coming down from the higher hills you may have a flow well. But don't get your hopes to high.

That's a good point, the view from my backyard is the small mountain where all the California millionaires live about 1000' above me. Many known streams/springs in the area originate in these hills.

Somewhere I saw on the state's water resources department website a "cutaway" picture of the soil showing several feet of clay (varying depths) and then some kind of rocky/sandy aquifer underneath. Of course just how deep that is under my lot I have no clue and I can't find that image again. The lowest ground water depths were all around the same elevation as me, ~300'.

Basically what I understand is the difference between a "deep well" and a "shallow well" is that a deep well is drilled through the bedrock to cleaner water below, while a shallow well stops before the bedrock and only gets what could be contaminated ground water.

I understand the "gravitational limit" with "shallow well pumps", but I could use a jet pump if I really have to. I like that hand powered post hole digger/auger thing...maybe I could do that for the first 10-15 feet and then start pounding a pipe from there.

I'm looking more and more towards the gas powered drillers right now for about 2 grand...kind of expensive, but I could sell it when I'm done. (or buy one from somebody else doing the same thing? ) Has anybody used one of those? Can they conceivably drill even a deep well?

If I can keep the bill under $2,000, and, am able to cut my city water consumption in half, it could easily pay for itself in 2 years. Now I saved enough money to buy a fancy tractor.

 

[zmoz]

Another thing - I don't have a tractor with an auger but how about the 2 man gas powered style? Can you add extensions and go extra deep with one of those?

 

[mikefromnh]

Ask your water department about a double meter. Many municipalities allow the installation of a second meter, just for the exterior irrigation. This saves you the sewer computation on that portion. You should also know that this isn't a cheap install, typically $500-700, which means your payback is way out there, 5 years or more.

Or you could just bypass the water meter completely. Probably not legal though