DUO Chains - planned modifications

[kco]

My DUO chains are very effective but can be improved. The gap between the patterns makes for a rougn ride and slippage, and I had to fill the large gap at the end with a couple of ladder cross chains. Each chain now has seven DUO patterns plus two added straight cross chains to fill the end gap.

Here is a photo of my existing chains plus one from a website:

.



A standard option to fill the inter-pattern gap is to add straight cross chains, converting them to DUO-ladder style as shown here:




What may be more effective is to convert them a more dense H-pattern scheme similar to these two photos:




It would involve moving six of the patterns so they connect to the cross-hook of the previous pattern. It would free-up twelve sidelinks, making room for three additional DUO patterns. The chains would also be a bit higher on the side wall making room for one more pattern. So each chain would have 11 patterns instead of 7.

I checked with the local supplier where I bought the original chains. They have 125 bulk patterns of my chain in stock. The cost is $21.90 per pattern or $175.20 for the 8 patterns.

If I do it, this will be a spring project. I have chain pliers. At say, 5 minutes per crosshook and 84 crosshooks to open/close(4 per pattern, 22 patterns, and 4 hooks do not have to move), it would take 420 minutes (7 hours) to rebuild the chains. I'm retired and have the luxury of being able to do this over several nice days. So the labour isn't a concern.

I'm interested in hearing if others have built or used such a pattern, and opinions on whether or not it is a good idea.

 

[Gordon Gould]

I use this H pattern and find it very good on my R1 tires

 

[RedNeckRacin]

That looks Excellent! my duo's help out alot, but they fall down in the deep R-1's so I know im not benefitting from them fully. I think this is going on my to do list! Did you get yours from tirechains.com?

 

[dstig1]

These guys are a lot better thtn tirechains.com...
Tire Chains, Truck Chains, Car Chains and Traction Cables

 

[Hammy]

My Duo Chains work on my R4's but they leave a lot to be desired. I too want to add chain to mine. I think adding chain length wise, similar in idea to Gordon Gould's chains would work the best at keeping the chains from falling into the deep tire tread. You also wouldn't have to tear yours apart, you would simply be adding chain. I've been wanting to do this for several years now but haven't gotten around to doing it.

 

[kco]

That looks Excellent! my duo's help out alot, but they fall down in the deep R-1's so I know im not benefitting from them fully. I think this is going on my to do list! Did you get yours from tirechains.com?

I got them locally from Western Equipment who build them from bulk cross-chain stock. I'm in Canada so ordering chains from the US is expensive. A popular supplier here is canadianchains.ca who sell Quality Chain Corp chains which are in the US and Canada. My local supplier uses Laclede chains which is a US company. The Quality Chain Corp and Laclede DUO patterns appear to be the same, so perhaps they are connected. My chains have the 13 link DUO236 cross-chain (see the attached catalogue page) which isn't even listed in the bulk continuous chain (the closest are 12 & 14 links).

 

[kco]

My Duo Chains work on my R4's but they leave a lot to be desired. I too want to add chain to mine. I think adding chain length wise, similar in idea to Gordon Gould's chains would work the best at keeping the chains from falling into the deep tire tread. You also wouldn't have to tear yours apart, you would simply be adding chain. I've been wanting to do this for several years now but haven't gotten around to doing it.

Yes, those would work better. I'm not sure how one would connect the new length-wise pieces to the DUO cross chains, and it may be expensive. The Scandanavian manufacturers seem to use a pin coupler or chain extension similar to what is shown in this attachment.

View attachment ChainExtensionPinCoupler.pdf

But the price is shown as 11.40 Euros(approx $15.00) each. A similar item in Quality Chain's last year catalogue is listed at $32.36 each. Perhaps just simple cross chain repair links would work. Quality Chain's price for a 7/0 repair link was $1.48 last year. I believe the DUO cross chains are about 9/0. They only list 9/0 square cross chain repair links for that size at $10.34 each.

There may be easier ways to make those connections.

 

[Hammy]

KCO,

For some reason that link isn't working but I would love to see what you're talking about if the link can be fixed? I would sure think there would be some type of chain connectors to make it work but I really have no idea. I was also thinking about taking my chains into a rigging / chain shop here locally and see what they could do. It might be way too expensive though.

 

[kco]

KCO,

For some reason that link isn't working but I would love to see what you're talking about if the link can be fixed? I would sure think there would be some type of chain connectors to make it work but I really have no idea. I was also thinking about taking my chains into a rigging / chain shop here locally and see what they could do. It might be way too expensive though.

I'll try this again and include files with more information on items you may possibly use for linking the chains. One file is prices and parts from the 2012 Quality Chain catalogue, the other from a LongLife Chains company with a price I got by searching for the part number.

View attachment LongLifeChainParts_p10_11_new.pdf

View attachment QualityChains2012_p76_77_withPrices.pdf

I hope these work OK.

I did not include the prices for the DUO patterns. Let me know if you want them. The patterns are VERY expensive if ordered as separate units. For my DUO296 patterns CanadianChains.ca wanted around $40 I believe. But I can buy 8 patterns of continuous DUO296 from Western Suppy (where I got my chains) for $21.90 per pattern. The CanadianChains price does not make sense when compared to buying complete chains, which are similar in price to the set I purchased locally. I did not ask if CanadianChains sells bulk continuous patterns.

I intend to order my 8 patterns next week (the local branch brings them in from another branch).

Let me know if you can't read the .pdf's in this post. You could PM me with your email address and I could send them that way.

Cheers

 

[WVBartMan]

I really dislike the ride I'm getting from my tire chains and wanted to know who in the USA makes a chain like this https://www.qualitychaincorp.com/pr...er-wbsq-double-diamond-pattern-alloy-wear-bar in a 17.5x24 R4 Tire? I believe the style of chain contained in the link would ride a great deal better than what I have now, all my snow plowing is on asphalt and concrete in the mountains on very steep roads. I operate an 8-feet wide plow on the front and an 8-feet wide broom on the back, it's a one pass spotless combination.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

WEll kco I took the plunge and ordered the extra 8 patterns as well as the chain tool. Sould be a fun little experience.

 

[kco]

Yes, opening and reclosing all those links should provide hours of entertainment.

I ordered my patterns Monday (Jan 28) and they should be here next week. My (Vernon) supplier's tire chains are all built at their Prince George branch. Since I"m in no hurry they will ship them for free with other items to the local store.

I see in another tire chain thread your supplier questioned what we are planning. On the other hand, my supplier thinks it's a great idea. I promised to send him a photo when I'm done.

I'm sure these will work out well for both of us.

Cheers

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Yes, opening and reclosing all those links should provide hours of entertainment.

I ordered my patterns Monday (Jan 28) and they should be here next week. My (Vernon) supplier's tire chains are all built at their Prince George branch. Since I"m in no hurry they will ship them for free with other items to the local store.

I see in another tire chain thread your supplier questioned what we are planning. On the other hand, my supplier thinks it's a great idea. I promised to send him a photo when I'm done.

I'm sure these will work out well for both of us.

Cheers

I happened to go through tirechains.com there shop is only about an hour away from me so I figured hey why not support the local guys although I think their stuff is made in china or atleast some of it is? I got my duo's in the mail today and they happened to be the wrong ones. The older gentleman on the phone didn't seem to thrilled about me modifying their product but couldn't think of a reason why not to. He did offer to sell me the tirechain tool and i politely declined. I should have listened. I had to fix a couple cross chains on my dually chains. (two cross chains and three side chains) they were only 5/16 and while it only took about a half hour, it was way to much fun with those to even attempt 3/8" many many more times.

I give you full credit for the idea to modify them though.

 

[kco]

Yes, it is a pain modifying chains with a hammer and chisel. The few additions I made to my DUO's last year taught me that.

So this fall I bought a chain tool to build 2-link ladders for my front tires out of large 4-link ladders. They are old truck chains with 5/16" hooks. The large tool from my supplier was $63. A good deal--CanadianChains.ca lists them at $130 and TireChains.com at $90.

The chain tool makes it easy to open and close the cross-hooks. I even tested it on a couple of my DUO's 3/8" hooks last fall and they work fine. I just got back from opening a 3/8" cross-hook on my DUO's. Your post got me wondering if it really was that easy(it is).

I'll keep track of how long it takes to do the job and will post photos when done.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

KCO,

Just talked to tirechains.com this morning. They double checked my order and it was placed correctly just packaged incorrectly. They are paying for shipping both ways to send me the correct order and sending back the incorrect one from what I understood from the phone call this morning. I got to second guessing my quantity after re-reading this thread, I may not have gotten enough duo's from my chains. I just ordered 4 per side. I'm going to have to double check my "measurements" *a-hem* lol I'm pretty tickled about this project. I also found out that just down the road from me an industrial supply warehouse sells bulk chain. With that chain tool it would be a snap to build my own! I'm going to have to check into things and see if they have anything with v-bar.

 

[kco]

I misunderstood your previous post and thought you'd decided against the DUO modification.

I think one needs one pattern for every two existing patterns. I have 7 patterns so theoretically need 3.5 patterns. However there's a sizeable end gap filled with two regular chains. The additional DUO patterns will move the side chains a bit higher on the tread, so there should be room for the 4th pattern. But it may require some non-standard modification. My biggest problem is a mere 1.5" inside clearance to the fender support--there's little room for extra hardware to make the inside connection.

From the Laclede catalogue it looks like your Deere 5083E's 16.9 x 30 AG's use a DUO271 chain with 10 patterns of DUO298(17 links, 31.55" long). If so, that would require 4.5 patterns per side? An idea may be to stick with the 4 per side and order others if required.

My supplier builds DUO chains from drums of bulk DUO patterns. My DUO's have 13 link, 25" crosschain patterns. They are the second set. He misjudged the first, building them with 15-link crosschains. The links joining each pattern's crosschains barely fit on the tread, and the inter-pattern gaps were much larger than the area covered with chain. Here's a photo:



He replaced those with my present 13-link chains. They are OK, but 12 links would have been better. The mistake is understandable. My supplier is in Prince George and I imagine most chains he makes are for large forestry, mining, and oilfield equipment.

Even CandianChains.ca(who use Quality Chain products) seems confused with 43x16-20 tires. Last year they switched from DUO239 with 7 patterns of 12-link crosschains to DUO242 with 9 patterns of 11-link crosschain(which did not agree with their new catalogue). This year they are back to DUO239 BUT using 10-link crosschains(DUO293). Ten links seems short, so I wonder if that is another error. Laclede on the other hand doesn't even specify a chain for 43x16-20's. TireChains.com no longer shows DUO's for my tires, but I think they did last year.

It's been interesting and I'm actually looking forward to messing with the chains. I'm sure the end result will be good. But if I were starting from scratch I would likely forgo the DUO's and use something similar to Gordon Gould's chains(post #2 in this thread).

 

[RedNeckRacin]

well, I actually only have the chains on the fronts, 11.2-24, and It has 8 patterns on it IIRC. So 4 patterns should be just about right. I may have a slightly bigger gap at the end of the chain/start of the chain but thats expected at some point. I may throw in a cross chain just for looks too. They are pretty pricey at about $26 a pop with the v-bars on it.

I was actually thinking that if this chain tool works as well as the video demonstrates I might just order chains for my rear tires in bulk and assemble my own concoction. I have been having an interesting dicussion with arrow on another thread and I maybe be able to go with a simpler/cheaper rear tire chain than going with the duo's. My R-1s really hide that 3/8" chain well when its not laying on top of the tread and the initial reason that I went with the Duo's.

Have you looked into axle extensions for your machine? I know john deere has several options available for my machine. My wheels are already set at the widest possible on the rears though so no chain clearance issues here.

 

[kco]

Yes, those would work better. I'm not sure how one would connect the new length-wise pieces to the DUO cross chains, and it may be expensive. The Scandanavian manufacturers seem to use a pin coupler or chain extension similar to what is shown in this attachment.

View attachment 299632

But the price is shown as 11.40 Euros(approx $15.00) each. A similar item in Quality Chain's last year catalogue is listed at $32.36 each. Perhaps just simple cross chain repair links would work. Quality Chain's price for a 7/0 repair link was $1.48 last year. I believe the DUO cross chains are about 9/0. They only list 9/0 square cross chain repair links for that size at $10.34 each.

There may be easier ways to make those connections.

I think my price for the extension pin coupler(see post #7) was wrong. I think the 11.40 euros is for a package of 4 couplers as shown in this catalogue page:

 

[kco]

I considered spacers RedNeckRacin but figure they would be costly. As far as I can tell there are no ready-made spacers for my Kioti. My chains work fine as long as I install them correctly. I had to pound the crosshooks flatter and will need to do that again when I modify them.

Regarding other styles--attached is a page from LongLife Chains catalogue showing a couple of interesting zig-zag patterns for truck chains.

The full Tellesfdal catalogue also has some interesting designs.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

KCO, Spacers are pretty cheap compared to fenders and down time.

From John deere build your own page for a 5083E
1.2" axle extension is $160
1.6" extension is $188
4.4" extension is $265

I don't think they are as available for the smaller tractors but worth looking into given the minimal cost that they might actually be. Those zig zak truck chains looks pretty neat. I already have a set of 5/16" dually chains for my truck though.