Echo vs Husqvarna

[CobyRupert]

I started my Stihl MS261 cold today after it sat for a week. Almost got it in 2 pulls. Took 3, ashamed to say. Warm starts today were always 1 pull.

Yeah...well..after 2 or 3 initial pulls, my Husky 55 starts 1st PULL EVERY TIME!

- adapted from the old basketball player brag: “I took the shot, ball went off the backboard, hit the front of the rim, bounced to the back of the rim, then the front again, then the back again.....AND THEN NOTHING BUT NET!

 

[goeduck]

What many don't realize is that altitude plays an important role with small motors.
Get a professional tune up done by a reputable shop at sea level and go north to a 1000 ft elevation and you'll cuss that shop.
Also barometric pressure will play havoc with carb adjustments.

My MS 441 was tuned at about 20 feet above sea level and the elevation I cut at is anywhere between 5 feet and 40 feet. I hope that is close enough

 

[Oldpath05]

My MS 441 was tuned at about 20 feet above sea level and the elevation I cut at is anywhere between 5 feet and 40 feet. I hope that is close enough

Instead of starting at the top of a tree try cutting lower to the ground, see with a M-Tronic carb you wouldn't have 5' stumps.................

 

[goeduck]

Instead of starting at the top of a tree try cutting lower to the ground, see with a M-Tronic carb you wouldn't have 5' stumps.................

:laughing: That saw predates the Mtronic. I used to think I needed Mtronic but my cutting is all within about 35 foot of elevation difference on my properties and are tuned accordingly. I am not a shiny nickel person who has to have new all the time so carbed is just fine. The two properties I cut most on have a max elevation of 40 foot above sea level. No trees near the water are worth cutting.

 

[John_Mc]

What many don't realize is that altitude plays an important role with small motors.
Get a professional tune up done by a reputable shop at sea level and go north to a 1000 ft elevation and you'll cuss that shop.
Also barometric pressure will play havoc with carb adjustments.

Frankly any saw owner needs a nice small screwdriver to 'touch up' the carburetor settings, same as he needs to always have the proper file to 'trim' the chain teeth every 2-3 tanks or so.
I, for one, always have a kit that includes a file, spark plug, plug wrench and slim screwdriver whenever I go chainsawing.
Often I also include a spare chain in case I hit a rock.

Except that a standard small screwdriver won't fit most most recent model saws. Those that still have manually adjustable carbs all seem to have special screws that take odd-ball, specialty screwdrivers (splined, D, Double D, Pac-Man...). I guess that is supposed to keep us "regular folks" from adjusting the carb on our own. Fortunately, I have a set of those odd-ball screwdrivers.

 

[CobyRupert]

Except that a standard small screwdriver won't fit most most recent model saws. Those that still have manually adjustable carbs all seem to have special screws that take odd-ball, specialty screwdrivers (splined, D, Double D, Pac-Man...). I guess that is supposed to keep us "regular folks" from adjusting the carb on our own. Fortunately, I have a set of those odd-ball screwdrivers.

This infuriates me.
The EPA, in order to "save the environment", doesn't want me to adjust the carb so that 1 gallon of weed-trimmer gas I burn a year is too rich and pollutes.

Instead I should take my $125 weed trimmer to a "qualified service technician" who will charge me $150 to (maybe) fix it. Common sense says it better to throw the whole weed trimmer in the garbage and just buy another one. That is really "saving the environment"! :mur:

Couldn't find anybody who would sell those "special screwdrivers" in the U.S.A. I had to really search and buy my contraband from some foreign website. I think Alibabi (China "ebay") and wait 6 weeks. Probably was legit, but it sure felt shady. I felt like I had to look around to make sure the FEDs weren't going to jump out of the bushes every time I opened my mailbox.

 

[LittleBill21]

This infuriates me.
The EPA, in order to "save the environment", doesn't want me to adjust the carb so that 1 gallon of weed-trimmer gas I burn a year is too rich and pollutes.

Instead I should take my $125 weed trimmer to a "qualified service technician" who will charge me $150 to (maybe) fix it. Common sense says it better to throw the whole weed trimmer in the garbage and just buy another one. That is really "saving the environment"! :mur:

Couldn't find anybody who would sell those "special screwdrivers" in the U.S.A. I had to really search and buy my contraband from some foreign website. I think Alibabi (China "ebay") and wait 6 weeks. Probably was legit, but it sure felt shady. I felt like I had to look around to make sure the FEDs weren't going to jump out of the bushes every time I opened my mailbox.

lol 3 seconds i had mine off ebay.. weren't exactly hard to find. i ate a donut on the way to the mail box... i think the FEDS have better things to do

 

[CobyRupert]

lol 3 seconds i had mine off ebay.. weren't exactly hard to find. i ate a donut on the way to the mail box... i think the FEDS have better things to do

Ok, ok, I might of been a little dramatic. Lol.
Yes, it's been awhile, perhaps it wasn't a foreign website, just a foreign seller. (I hope I used Paypal) Many of the ones I find on Ebay today ship from Shanghi or ShenZen China and show up with chicken scratch writing all over the package.
I guess as long as it's not rhino horn in it (as far as they know ) it (might) be good with the Feds.

 

[LittleBill21]

fair enough

 

[Industrial Toys]

Back to my question. So choke on a saw, is a choke in the sense that it closes up the throat, but doesn't affect the motor running in the same way as a typical four stroke. I mean, it makes no allowance for any warm up. Obviously, not required to stay running.

 

[CobyRupert]

I bought the CS501P. Nice size for general day to day cleanup and chores. So far no problems.

I will never understand why saws only need to be choked until that first burb! Then they run fine. Makes no sense to me.

Back to my question. So choke on a saw, is a choke in the sense that it closes up the throat, but doesn't affect the motor running in the same way as a typical four stroke. I mean, it makes no allowance for any warm up. Obviously, not required to stay running.

Yes, the choke is similar in that it closes (chokes) the air into the carb and cylinder.
My understanding is a 2 cycle uses the vacuum impulses of the piston to draw the gas into the carb, whereas most 4 cycles use a pump or gravity to get gas into a bowl (reserve) constantly kept full by a float (valve).

My understanding is you usually need a few pulls (pulses) to get the gas into the carb and cylinder to get the burp. (Thus my previous joke of "It always starts on the 1st pull! ...after the 2nd pull")
Until the gas gets there, you're just getting too much air, thus you need to choke the air off. (But why doesn't primer bulb eliminate need for 2 pulls before burp?)

I know that initially, when motor first starts, a lot of the energy (of the explosion) is going into heating the cold metal instead of being available mechanically. Not sure if or how this effects required air/fuel mix or necessity to choke until warmed up. Small 2 cycles warm up quicker. However, gas doesn't vaporize as well at lower temps so you need more gas than normal (or less air) when motor is cold. Thus: Choke.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Curious why no one ever made a Propane saw. Refill it from a BBQ tank. Never have a bloody carb issue again.

 

[Jstpssng]

Except that a standard small screwdriver won't fit most most recent model saws. Those that still have manually adjustable carbs all seem to have special screws that take odd-ball, specialty screwdrivers (splined, D, Double D, Pac-Man...). I guess that is supposed to keep us "regular folks" from adjusting the carb on our own. Fortunately, I have a set of those odd-ball screwdrivers.

The father/son team at the small engine shop which I go to files a groove into the screw, so that it can be turned with a normal screwdriver. They also generally are working on things which are off warrantee, and are one of those rare places which actually fix things when you bring them in. Unfortunately they bought a loader/dump truck and are getting into dirt work, so I'm not sure how much longer they will be there.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I was talking to the Small Engines Division Manager yesterday, being a customer (and friends) of mine. He seriously questions how long this type of business will be around with everything going "electric" Even ZERO turn mowers!

 

[Oldpath05]

Curious why no one ever made a Propane saw. Refill it from a BBQ tank. Never have a bloody carb issue again.

Possibly because the fuel tank would end up bigger then the saw............

 

[Oldpath05]

When it comes to those special screw drivers a bench grinder can make any screwdriver special.

The last time I seen them special carb screwdrivers was about 25 years ago at a local Husqvarna saw shop, I bought two of them but they have since vanished away just like the Husqvarna adjustable carb chainsaw, I dont know if Husky now makes any adjustable carb saw, think all there saws have gone Autotune. But in someways I kinda like that idea because now theres no more fiddling with those tiny screws even when the air filter gets dirty or if I loose track how far above sea level my tree is, my 550xp magically adjust itself.

 

[Industrial Toys]

For the difference in energy betwen gasoline and propane, I don't see the tank size being an issue. You could get creative and make the frame, the tank, or some such thing.

 

[two_bit_score]

I was talking to the Small Engines Division Manager yesterday, being a customer (and friends) of mine. He seriously questions how long this type of business will be around with everything going "electric" Even ZERO turn mowers!

That is something I hate to hear!

 

[gary49]

Curious why no one ever made a Propane saw. Refill it from a BBQ tank. Never have a bloody carb issue again.

A chain saw needs to be a two stroke for power to weight reasons. You'd need oil injection to run one on propane,I think. That would add weight, complications, and cost, not to mention that the saw would already be heavier due to needing a stronger tank to contain the propane.

 

[Deere Dude]

You could carry a backpack propane tank with a hose over your shoulder. Carrying a 30# tank in front of you would be prohibitive, for me at least.