Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

[California]

For instant peak loads - I saw an interesting solution in Los Angeles. I was going out to visit a highway construction contractor's hq/equipment yard in an industrial neighborhood. Heard a Godawful racket. They told me it is the peak load generating plant next door, essentially Boeing 747 jet engines running wide open. I then read a little about them online. These 10,000 to 50,000 horsepower jet engines are ideal for peak load because they can go from cold to full output quicker than any other form of generator, and have reasonable cost to operate in intermittent service. I thought these might be actual retired 747 engines but no, they are the same engine purpose-built for this application. (Wikipedia - similar)

 

[Garandman]

I have also been following the Bolt. The Car & Driver car of the Year review got my attention. I live in a very low population dense area so I worry about service when there is a problem. Local dealer mechanics won't have a clue....

Oh come on. There are more Chevy dealers in NH than Subaru dealers. They'll all get service training.

That's not to say an all-electric makes sense in New England though. Battery drops with cold temps, and you are using power for resistance heating. Even in Boston, while you aren't using much power at low speeds, at lights and in traffic, a lot of people park on the street so recharging access is poor. (Some parking garages have chargers).

Three friends have Testas. One regularly makes the trip from Northern NJ to his parents in Portsmouth NH. He stops at a rapid charging facility in Milford CT, then can make it to Portsmouth from there. That's almost 200 miles.

By contrast I drive our Chevy Cruze turbodiesel from MA to Philadelphia to Laurel MD and back to Fort Lee NJ - on one tank, with 1 1/2 gallons left. He would have had to recharge three times.

Hybrids make better sense, particularly in the city, and as many as a third the cabs in Boston now are hybrids: high fuel economy and relatively low maintenance costs.

 

[Redneck in training]

So A/C or Heat plus water heaters, refrigerators, freezers and all the electronics that use electricity 24 hours a day isn't enough?

Yes and no. Since large portion of electric power is generated by NG the night load is not as critical as it used to be. Coal burning power plants burning lignite or low energy content coal have low turndown ratio. Some can't operate below 80% of rated capacity without stabilization by NG or oil. Plants burning quality coal can operate as low as 30% of rated capacity but the rate of decrease and increase capacity is low (hours). Water or wind turbines can be stopped and/or restarted at instant notice (within minutes). Gas turbine generators can be stopped and restarted also within short time (30 minutes) but starting and stopping shortens time between overhauls. Since the trend is to save on energy expense the night load is steadily decreasing as older lights and appliances are replaced by more efficient models. There are several strategies to deal with capacity versus demand mismatch. One option is moving energy from area with excess capacity to area with ability to absorb it. The second option is to store it locally. The first option is limited by transmission lines and the second is emerging technology in its infancy.

My employer got interested in development of "smart grid" software several years ago, hired the engineers but then figured that it would be risky and expensive project (for company of our size) and killed the it before it even started. Most of the engineers initially assigned to the project quit and started new company doing just that initially on smaller scale selling energy management software to large manufacturing plants such as refineries, chemical plants etc. Just Googled it Power Sector Solutions Several years later I see they are taking on much larger projects.

 

[Redneck in training]

For instant peak loads - I saw an interesting solution in Los Angeles. I was going out to visit a highway construction contractor's hq/equipment yard in an industrial neighborhood. Heard a Godawful racket. They told me it is the peak load generating plant next door, essentially Boeing 747 jet engines running wide open. I then read a little about them online. These 10,000 to 50,000 horsepower jet engines are ideal for peak load because they can go from cold to full output quicker than any other form of generator, and have reasonable cost to operate in intermittent service. I thought these might be actual retired 747 engines but no, they are the same engine purpose-built for this application. (Wikipedia - similar)

The generator driver is made by GE. It is based on jet engine but it is modified for industrial use. It is called LM6000. The gas producer turbine in original jet also runs the turbofan, in the industrial version it runs only the air compressor. The gas producer then blows hot gas into a turboexpander (power turbine) that is coupled with the load. Also the control system is different than in the aircraft. In aircraft it controls thrust (gas producer speed) but in industrial version it controls speed of the power turbine. It is very popular machine in Oil and Gas industry.

 

[MossRoad]

15 years?? Tell me more! I know less than nothing about them.
What are they, cost, cruising speed, payload, range, etc. etc.
My wife and I each run 35 miles round trip each day. I need a truck, she drives a car. Now she is hinting HARD that she wants an ultra mileage car like a (gag, swallow, swallow) SMART CAR! (insert bullet to my brain here) But, its HER car. Would an electric work for her? Gets cold up here ya know.

My wife's friend bought a smart car..... she and her husband can barely fit in it at the same time! And they aren't large people. Normal size. Their shoulders hit. If she wants to get groceries, he has to stay home! There's a small shelf behind the rear seats that their tiny, itty, bitty dog can sit on, and that's about it. The main reason they bought it is they can tow it behind their RV and use it like a golf cart at the campgrounds! :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

We owned three Buick Regals with 3.8 l V6 of various vintages. ....

That engine is one of the best engines ever made. We had one in a 2000 Impala. Got rid of the car at 180,000 due to dash board lights all out, anti-lock brake system failing, and rust. However, the person that bought it three years ago is still driving it, well over 220,000 miles.

 

[MossRoad]

I saw a Chev Bolt recently at a shopping mall and realized they are now on the road. Reading about the Bolt and competitors, here's what I've learned:

All-electric, no gas engine. 238 mile rated range. Same as Tesla's base (60) model. And these two (plus the premium Teslas) are the only cars in the category of 'practical for out of town use', presently.

Bolt costs about half of the Tesla. It's a compact while the Tesla seems old-Buick size. I had thought the Tesla was attractive until I saw one parked in the city, the thing is huge relative to ordinary parallel parking on city streets. The Bolt in contrast is 30 inches shorter. That's a huge difference for shoehorning it into an urban parking space.

Bolt's most expensive option pack includes automatic cruise and braking, to fall in line behind someone else and track his speed. Useful on long freeway trips and a huge improvement for creeping along in stop and go urban rush hour traffic. Also cameras claimed to watch the lane dividers then order the steering to keep you centered in your lane if you are inattentive. Both features seem like they would take some of the frustration out of driving in crowded traffic. Probably Tesla's system is far better but due to cost and size I wouldn't seriously consider buying a Tesla at this point. Maybe in a few years when sales of the new models settle down and there isn't a waiting list ranked by how expensive an option pack you ordered. I want a car for practical use, primarily the 100 mile frequent trip between home and ranch. I admire Tesla but don't want to pay the premium they presently justifiably earn.

Charging on Tesla is much faster if you buy their home charge system. Bolt is lighter, uses a little less electricity, and its charging system isn't nearly as fast as Tesla. I'm reading in user groups that many just plug into 110 with no add-ons to home wiring and haven't bothered with the next step up, a several hundred $ home charging station that more than doubles charging speed. Another alternative is a couple hundred $ for an adapter to charge from a dryer/water heater/welder/ 220V circuit, or even to plug into two 110 V circuits that are fed from opposite sides of the 220 V main panel. These methods also double charging speed. Tesla you pay a lot of money for excellence in all aspects, Bolt owners seem to find good-enough is ok for them.

Surprisingly performance was about equal in some car magazine comparison. Acceleration, comfort on the highway and on bad roads, adequate interior space for the people. Tesla has wider seats and far more trunk space, Bolt is a small hatchback.

Charging away from home might seem like a limitation but Bolt uses the same charging standard as Leaf and everybody else except Tesla, so at least it isn't proprietary. PlugShare - EV Charging Station Map - Find a place to charge your car! claims 50,000 charging stations on their map including many shared by their members.

For my use 100 miles each way to the ranch, Bolt's over 200 mile range and some charging at each end are sufficient for my needs. I doubt I'll buy one immediately but my present fleet, Subaru and Focus, are 18 and 13 years old respectively so its time to compare what I need next.

I think we're seeing the leading edge of a new era. Has anyone here bought one?

Attached: Available and proposed all-electric automobiles. (Bloomberg)

View attachment 507459

We're not to the point yet of a car like that being useful to us. We have a 2013 Impala and an old 1993 Suburban. I drive the Suburban 9 miles a day, on average. My wife drives the Impala 30 miles per day, on average. However, we take many weekend excursions well over 200 miles, with kids in college, in-laws sightseeing, visiting parks, etc.... its nothing for us to put 2-300 miles on the car on a Saturday afternoon. We need the Suburban, and we need the Impala.

However, if we didn't need the Suburban, I'd seriously consider as our 2nd car, an all electric car VS a hybrid, with our mostly short daily trips.

Chevy Bolt vs Chevy Volt - Is Chevy Bolt Going to Cannibalize on Chevy Volt Sales? - Torque News

 

[sd455dan]

That engine is one of the best engines ever made. We had one in a 2000 Impala. Got rid of the car at 180,000 due to dash board lights all out, anti-lock brake system failing, and rust. However, the person that bought it three years ago is still driving it, well over 220,000 miles.

I agree Moss- although I have a special fondness for the originals...


started with a 1966 Buick special with the (Fireball) 225 odd fire and a couple Jeepsters (Dauntless) (GM sold the rights to Kaiser) and then GM bought the engine rights back from AMC later.

Really became famous in the grand National turbo cars- and they were even used in Indy cars for a while.
but have quite a history since being introduced in 1962.
the 215 Aluminum block V8 was actually the original design iteration, and set some early fuel efficiency records for gm during open road testing. See them advertised once in a blue moon as an Oldsmobile - But they are Buicks at the heart Rover liked them enough to buy the 215's rights and used them for a VERY long time (1960-2006)

I also think the sister engines were well before their time- both the Buick 300 V8 and also the long stroke big brother the 340 V8 which had a base weight of about 485 lbs and was rated at 360 lb ft of torque in 1966.

still have a hopped up 4 barrel carbed, aluminum intaked and cammed even fire 238 sitting on an engine stand and also the big brother 340 four barrel version. someday will find a project or two for them.

Sorry about the rambling , but as posted have a real fondness for these engines- far more than any small block Chevy or Ford



ps. Looks like the Giga battery factory began actual production yesterday

Elon Musk's Tesla megafactory in the Nevada desert begins battery production | Daily Mail Online

 

[buickanddeere]

496,000Km on the origional bottom end of my GN.

 

[MossRoad]

I agree Moss- although I have a special fondness for the originals...


started with a 1966 Buick special with the (Fireball) 225 odd fire and a couple Jeepsters (Dauntless) (GM sold the rights to Kaiser) and then GM bought the engine rights back from AMC later.

Really became famous in the grand National turbo cars- and they were even used in Indy cars for a while.
but have quite a history since being introduced in 1962.
the 215 Aluminum block V8 was actually the original design iteration, and set some early fuel efficiency records for gm during open road testing. See them advertised once in a blue moon as an Oldsmobile - But they are Buicks at the heart Rover liked them enough to buy the 215's rights and used them for a VERY long time (1960-2006)

I also think the sister engines were well before their time- both the Buick 300 V8 and also the long stroke big brother the 340 V8 which had a base weight of about 485 lbs and was rated at 360 lb ft of torque in 1966.

still have a hopped up 4 barrel carbed, aluminum intaked and cammed even fire 238 sitting on an engine stand and also the big brother 340 four barrel version. someday will find a project or two for them.

Sorry about the rambling , but as posted have a real fondness for these engines- far more than any small block Chevy or Ford



ps. Looks like the Giga battery factory began actual production yesterday

Elon Musk's Tesla megafactory in the Nevada desert begins battery production | Daily Mail Online

We have friends that own a Grand National. They bought it new. About every 2-3 years, he dusts it off, shines it up, drives it to a car show, wins 1st or 2nd place, and drives it home. At least he drives it to the car shows.... but man, if I had a car like that, I'd have beaten it to death in the 1st year. Hard to keep my foot out of something that fun! :thumbsup: