engine dying again!!

[jinman]

Can anyone think of ANYTHING else at all, no matter how stupid it may sound that can be causing my engine to miss badly, smoke white and die?

The problem is it's intermittent. Sometimes it will run fine at 2000 rpm here sitting in the driveway. The dealer said they ran it for two hours this time and it didn't act up. They replaced the lift pump and filter housing this time.

I'll bet you they had it sitting in the same place for the two hours they had it running. As you said, it sits in your driveway and runs fine. See your quote below.

It ran 5 minutes after getting home before it died though. All I was doing was slowly driving across the field getting ready to mow and was at about 1500 rpm. I was using the foot throttle and at first the RPM started hunting mildly. I thought it was just my foot bouncing on the pedal so I switched over to the hand throttle and that's when it started blowing smoke and died.
Just looking for more ideas. Meanwhile I'm going shopping around for a new USED tractor. I have got to have something working here.

Have they ever replaced the fuel tank? If all your filters have air in them, it sure seems like a simple (yeah...sure!) fuel feed problem. As I remember, you first had this problem when you were using some red diesel and thought it might be some kind of clog. Am I right or do I have you confused with somebody else? If everything has been replaced except the tank, I think the tank would be next on my list even if it was a remote possibility.

BTW: I bet you the dealership went to more trouble painting the bolt and screw heads than they did driving your tractor. They need to hook up something and drive it up and down the road a couple of miles or around a rough field to get things sloshing around.

 

[Wildcat Ranch]

I know they are 2 completely different vehicles but on our gator, I was driving it through a bumpy field at a faster pace. It stuttered and then killed. We were able to start it for a few seconds but then it would kill. The fuel filter bowl was half way empty. I primed the system and then it ran fine driving on the slower side but once I got on the driveway and gave it more throttle to increase speed. It did the same thing. Turns out that there was sludge in the bottom of the fuel tank and when shaken up it would clog a fine screen on the bottom of the pickup tube.

 

[WTA]

That was me. This is turning out to be way too long a thread for any problem on a new tractor!

The very first time the dealer mechanic came out here he looked at all my fuses, relays and I helped him check the shutoff solenoid since he didn't bring a multimeter. I don't even think he owns one.

He took off the sedimenter and smacked it on the ground real hard a few times and a bit of thick raspberry jelly looking crap came out (NO IDEA how, it was 105 degrees int he shade that day) with a little bit of sediment, black tiny bits of plastic like the fuel tank, a tiny bit of sand, West Texas, and I think I saw some tiny bits of rust, god only knows where that came from. My transfer tank doesn't have one bit of rust or anything else in it except fuel. It also has a good goldenrod filter and water separator on the pump. I've never yet had to drain a drop of water out of it.

When I cleaned the tank on the tractor I swiveled it down from the hinge it has on the back and drained it. I reached every nook and cranny in there with lint free rags and then blew out anything I couldn't see with air. I have to say on those white rags I sure didn't see much.

Today, both of the mechanics that are working on it came out to get it. I asked them a lot of questions, gave them some opinions and asked specifically that they take it for a ride around the parking lot this time. I told them how it's been seeming to do it most when just the slightest bit of bumpiness comes into the picture. Those giant lugs on the tires is all it takes. They did only run it in the shop this last time they said.

What gets me about the tank though is that the service manager blew out the lines from the sedimenter to the tank once at least, I did it once and then just went and replaced the two suction hoses, When I cleaned the tank, I had to take out the pickup to get my arm in there. I made real sure the clamps were tight, none of the tubing welds were broken or cracked and that the pipes were straight and not bottoming out in the tank. If there is going to be any sludge in the tank it will be in the pocket where the bottom of the pickup tube sits. That's the lowest spot. But there isn't a thing in there now I'm sure. There is no screen or sock down there. Just an open ended about 3/8 inch stainless steel pipe for the pickup and another one for the return.

Before it messed up the first time the only thing I had done to the machine was run it, fuel it up and service it according to the owners manual. All with New Holland parts.
Oh, I did double and triple check the filters and the orings. I even called another dealer and asked them to look it up in the catalog and physically put their hands on a couple to make sure the o rings I have are what is supposed to be on it and none are missing.

 

[WTA]

Oh, I'm back to using red diesel in it again now too. As I find out from our supplier, it's the exact same thing from the exact same tank and from the exact same terminal as what I am running in my truck. In fact they fill up the underground tanks at the gas station near us where I fill up the truck. The dye is mixed at the pump there at the fuel depot. It's a pretty cool system he has really. Fuel quality is not my problem. I even saw the guys analysis report that was less than 2 weeks old. It was clean enough that the govt would burn it in aircraft pretty much.

Everyone local I talk to that owns very expensive big name tractors who's name I won't mention and says it's my tank too. They get upset at even the slightest scratch on those big green tractors of theirs so they are a picky bunch. They have been having the same problem. They say the tanks are coming apart from the inside and fouling up the fuel system on theirs. I dd find little bits of black plastic in mine. One guy told me they replaced the tank on his twice now. Most of them told me they never had this problem before ULSD was made mandatory in all vehicles, on and off road here just a few months ago. I do believe our fuel terminal made the switch about 1 to 2 months before I started having problems. There is no more high sulfur diesel here now. They used to have a separate tank for high sulfur red diesel. Now it's just one tank and the dye goes in at the pump for off road.
It doesn't make sense to me though. This tractor is factory rated for B100 Biodiesel. If it is made to handle that then certainly a little ULSD can't hurt it. the B100 here cost more than 10 bucks a gallon, otherwise I'd be running it.

The facts though are that it is an import tractor coming from a country still allowed to use sulfur in their fuel. I think we are about the only one with this particular stupid regulation. We're not the only place these tractors go to either.

 

[jimg]

WTA: Hows NH corporate dealing w/ all this? Are they still involved and if so to what degree? They have a dog in this fight and should be actively seeking to correct the problems ASAP esp since its impacting your business/bottom line.

 

[WTA]

In thinking over what I'd like to say all I probably should say is it's still broke. I do NOT have a loaner. I have NOT received a call from any area managers like I've been promised I would for weeks. I can't get the dealership to return my calls so I have to waste my gas and drive down there only to have everyone hide when my truck pulls in.

I was promised by the second person I talked to at top service that they would fix it quickly or get me another one. That person was supposed to be handling my case but every time I've called since it's been some lady that denies he said that and I can never get him on the phone. He never gets my messages either and I haven't got a return phone call from him.

It is making me absolutely sick sitting here in my shop watching all the farmers around us go by on their big JD's working their butts off. That's what I would like to be doing right now. They always slow down when they pass my place and I just know they are staring at the weeds that are taking over 2 of my pastures. They would have been sprayed weeks ago if my tractor had been running.

 

[Eagleview]

Have you had the fuel solenoid tested yet ? Does it still "BUZZ" ? What about the relay that powers it ? Is the pickup tube cut at an angle so it can't be blocked by the floor of the tank ? It is also quite normal for an air gap to be on the top of a screw on fuel filter when it is removed , is this what you are seeing ?

 

[WTA]

Thanks for the suggestions. I ohm'd the shutoff solenoid and also did the finger test on it. When someone shuts off the key it clicks shut positively. It also has a constant and steady 13.7 volts on it while running. When it starts dying I don't feel it click shut so it's not that. That other one that is buzzing, I have no idea what it was. The first time I noticed it, it was dark out and I thought it was the shutoff but it's not. It's connected via linkage to a shaft sticking out the front inboard side of the pump. That one sure feels like it's buzzing every time it messes up but noone will tell me what it is, what it does or if they have even checked it. It ohm'd out good and sure doesn't buzz unless the engine is running. It has constant power when the engine is on. I'm still thinking that may be it. Maybe that shaft is sticking halfway in between and sticking it. If someone with the company would tell me what it is for I would know if it can cause this though.
The dealer said it's not buzzing, that it's in the pump. I don't think so.

The pickup tubes were square cut if I remember right. I tried calling the dealer to suggest checking that today so we must be reading each others minds.

As usual they haven't called me back. The service manager was out again and I left a message. I swear they are all hiding from me now.

My theory with that was that just maybe the tank has collapsed just slightly and when I get to bouncing out in the field it starts hitting bottom and cutting off the fuel. What do I know though? I've only been doing this going on 30 years now.
That plastic tank is fairly flexible though and this is a very good possibility.
There really isn't much else left other than these two items.

All the times it's shut down on me, it's taken from 10 to 50 pumps on the hand pump to get fuel back on the top of the filter. Sometimes it will just restart and run fine for a while. It's really weird that I can pinch that suction line and it will almost kill it then it will run perfect again. Almost like it's releasing a blockage somewhere but new hoses, filters and filter housings eliminated all but the tank as the cause.

Since none wants to return my calls and everyone involved refuses to give me any form of written receipts or records of what has happened we are going to start communicating via registered letter with them. I'll make sure I put in this first one about checking the pickup tubes.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I feel this problem is more a dealer problem then anything. A poor dealer is a terrible thing to have. New Holland corp most likely is trying to work with the dealer so as to not create hard feelings between dealers. However, you should not have taken this tractor back to the same dealer you have been dealing with and I think you know that. They have proven to not care and seem to cause more problems then anything. Get the tractor to a different dealer and see what happens. Chances are you will be kicking yourself for not doing so sooner. Otherwise, pay for Rick to fly down there and fix it. From what you are losing right now it would be cheaper to pay for Ricks "vacation" then to keep dealing with your current dealer.

On a similar note regarding poor dealers, I found a oil leak on my 6.0l 2006 F-250. I took it to my local dealer just because they are close and I bought it from them because the price would be the same regardless to where we buy (Ford family plan). Well, I have never cared for this dealers service department but figured I would try anyway. They tell me it would be 45 minutes, I wait an hour and a half (no biggy, I didn't have much else to do except spray). I then ask what they learned, they see the oil but can't see where it is coming from so they put dye in it and said goodbye. I had to ask them when I should bring it back in in which I was told a month. Then they told me they doubt they will do anything about it because these motors just seep oil and even if they did fix it now it would just act up again So in one month I will bring it back in, let them look it over and see what they will do to fix it. The truck doesn't even have 16k miles yet so if they refuse to fix the oil leak I will take it to the better dealership 20 miles away and have them fix it and then write Ford to let them know (not that it will do any good). I am at the point now where if they refuse to fix it because they can't actually fix the problem then I am done buying from my local dealer. My last 5 trucks came from them (92, 98, 02 and 2- 06's) and I still feel like they don't care.

Best of luck to you on your tractor but I would seriously take the tractor to another dealer (unless Rick will agree to come down for you )

 

[WTA]

I did try taking it to another one. Was told by top service I have to transport it myself and it will not be covered under warranty if I do.

I'm not saying any more about this situation unless I find out what the problem is.