Buying Advice Evaluating options for a compact

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I can answer that one. I've had both types of transmission - in fact I have both types now (again).

HST is much nicer than a shuttle for hilly country, icy slopes, as well as much better for using the loader. That's because with the HST, when you take your foot off the treadle all tractor driving force stops. Any momentum that the tractor has simply disappears.So reducing the treadle acts like it puts on the brakes as you reduce the drive. Completely off and no drive at all, and it doesn't even want to roll. My Kubota HST also automatically adjusts the throttle to compensate for any motion of the treadle. The throttle can be adjusted separately, but you don't have to.

With a shuttle-shift, the throttle is separate. But more importantly, with a shuttle you are always in gear unless you deliberately shift into neutral. So as you slow down it doesn't want to stop. You are still in gear even if you reduce the throttle. So to come to a complete stop or just inch forward with a shuttle you need to either shift into neutral, tap or stand on the brakes, or shuttle into reverse and go backwards.

Now for use on long straight sections like a huge lawn or a farm field the shuttle is nicer because you can just set the throttle, select a gear, relax, and just continue on without any foot or hand control needed.
rScotty

Yeah that's a great way to explain it. The HST is completely intuitive to me, even without big-tractor experience, and the only option in our tight woody areas. (BTW, I'd totally be comparing Kubota's too if we had a dealer within 2 hours....)

Everyone around here has pretty much our terrain; even the "farmers" have big hills. So there is no big-scale farming here, like what you said, no long flat fields. Just a few happy black angus grazing on lush green hills, and folks raising alpacas and arugula and other weird, small-scale, specialty type stuff. Probably why the shuttles weren't as popular?

 

[Milo]

I know everyone has their opinion but IMO a B2650 might be perfect for you. After considering just how much tractor I needed I moved up from a 21hp to my B2650 and it works just fine. I love the ergonomics, controls, low rpm power, comfort, it runs a 5' rotary cutter, 6' mid mount mower, pulls a 72" rear blade, and the FEL can (just) lift the 60" "light duty" bucket when completely full of gravel. I like that it's relatively light for when I'm on my lawn and trails yet with the ballast box and FEL on it's heavy enough to drag tree trunks and such anywhere I need to.

Most of my 150 acres is wooded so I have maybe 4 acres I cut with a zero turn, but the B2650 takes care of everything else which includes bush hogging 8 acres every Fall, moving felled trees and cleaning up limbs and debris with the grapple, maintaining the 900' gravel driveway, and digging up rocks and invasive brush.

My final thinking (and I went back and forth) was to not buy a larger class tractor plus spend big $ (and devote storage space) on a back hoe, instead just pay someone with a big machine to do those tasks if ever needed.

Whatever you buy I would strongly recommend you get a third function hydraulic and the SS Quick Connect FEL at the get go because you mentioned a grapple for the future.

 

[NYCheese]

I know everyone has their opinion but IMO a B2650 might be perfect for you. After considering just how much tractor I needed I moved up from a 21hp to my B2650 and it works just fine. I love the ergonomics, controls, low rpm power, comfort, it runs a 5' rotary cutter, 6' mid mount mower, pulls a 72" rear blade, and the FEL can (just) lift the 60" "light duty" bucket when completely full of gravel. I like that it's relatively light for when I'm on my lawn and trails yet with the ballast box and FEL on it's heavy enough to drag tree trunks and such anywhere I need to.

Most of my 150 acres is wooded so I have maybe 4 acres I cut with a zero turn, but the B2650 takes care of everything else which includes bush hogging 8 acres every Fall, moving felled trees and cleaning up limbs and debris with the grapple, maintaining the 900' gravel driveway, and digging up rocks and invasive brush.

My final thinking (and I went back and forth) was to not buy a larger class tractor plus spend big $ (and devote storage space) on a back hoe, instead just pay someone with a big machine to do those tasks if ever needed.

Whatever you buy I would strongly recommend you get a third function hydraulic and the SS Quick Connect FEL at the get go because you mentioned a grapple for the future.

I like the fact that it sounds like it's enough tractor for you, but I think I'm pretty set now on getting something bigger. There were a few posts about the 25hp maybe not being enough when working on hills, with FEL and BH on it. The consensus is that I want more weight too. I've dropped the idea of mowing with the tractor entirely. At first it sounded like a good idea, one machine to handle everything, but for the cost of the mid mount mowers on these machines, I could just get a new riding mower or maybe a bigger zero turn than what I have currently, that has a bit more power for the hilly parts of the yard.

As far as a backhoe goes, I'm pretty sure I have enough tasks lined up for it, that it would pay for itself in the first couple years, compared to renting. The 3rd function is a must, like you said for a future grapple, and likely a future snow blade at well.

I was hoping to get to more dealers, and maybe have a purchase lined up this week, while I'm off....but as luck would have it, another unexpected project came up, so it looks like the rest of my week is shot. I do need to make a decision by the end of the month though, because if I choose to go with Mahindra, they have some really good incentives right now, dealer said the 1500 tractors were 5200 off msrp, and another 800 off if you purchase 3 implements (which includes FEL, BH, rotary cutter). He said that's one of the best incentives they've had in a long time.

 

[RjCorazza]

You might want to do some research on the B3350 regarding issues with regeneration. Many folks have had issues and some dealers wouldn't even sell them. Some claim Kubota has fixed the issues. I have no first hand knowledge if it is fixed or not and just want you to investigate before considering purchasing. Look in the Kubota forums.

A Grand L tractor sounds more appropriate for your intended use.

X2 moship.
I would definitely not consider buying a B3350 used, or even new off the lot. From reading various forums : some have no problems, some have had the regen issues fixed, and some have had there machines at the dealer for months with no end in sight.

For the OP;
I had an L3410 for years and it served me well. Now in my mid 50’s, I went with an L4060 cab for the comfort while snow plowing. The L4060 cab comes in at about 4000 lbs bare, 6500-7000 lbs with filled rears, loader, and plow. Weight is king for snow removal.
Have fun shopping!

 

[ericm979]

One of the Kubuota dealers I talked to discouraged me from the 3350. I'm glad I got a larger tractor than that. It seemed huge compared to my B7100 at first but now it's normal. And it'll really lift stuff. I wouldn't mind a Grand L with the high/low splitter trans but that was a significant amount more than the Branson I got.

BTW the Mahindra rotary is a rebadged US made Kodiak. I have one, I like it.

 

[rScotty]

I like the fact that it sounds like it's enough tractor for you, but I think I'm pretty set now on getting something bigger. There were a few posts about the 25hp maybe not being enough when working on hills, with FEL and BH on it. The consensus is that I want more weight too. I've dropped the idea of mowing with the tractor entirely. At first it sounded like a good idea, one machine to handle everything, but for the cost of the mid mount mowers on these machines, I could just get a new riding mower or maybe a bigger zero turn than what I have currently, that has a bit more power for the hilly parts of the yard.

As far as a backhoe goes, I'm pretty sure I have enough tasks lined up for it, that it would pay for itself in the first couple years, compared to renting. The 3rd function is a must, like you said for a future grapple, and likely a future snow blade at well.

I was hoping to get to more dealers, and maybe have a purchase lined up this week, while I'm off....but as luck would have it, another unexpected project came up, so it looks like the rest of my week is shot. I do need to make a decision by the end of the month though, because if I choose to go with Mahindra, they have some really good incentives right now, dealer said the 1500 tractors were 5200 off msrp, and another 800 off if you purchase 3 implements (which includes FEL, BH, rotary cutter). He said that's one of the best incentives they've had in a long time.

Sounds like you know what you want. And I agree with the FEL, 3rd function, HST, and higher wt&HP.

Too bad there's not a Kubota dealer close enough....not because they are good or better tractors, but because they are the only mfg who makes a compact dedicated Tractor/Loader/Backhoe with the 3pt as an accessory. As you are not going to mow with your tractor, the TLB offers a lot of advantages over a dedicated 3pt machine with the Backhoe as an accessory. They are higher priced than 3pt tractors though.

Congratulations on considering getting a backhoe. We use ours more than any other implement, even though it is usually as a crane, a counterweight, or for picking up something and placing it carefully more than for digging in the ground! As for the cost, it is negiligible compared with the price of the property. And the fun of working on the property is why we bought land in the first place.

If I can offer another suggestion, I have one backhoe with a thumb and one without a thumb but with a cab. The one with the thumb gets used far more often. A backhoe with a thumb does things no other machine can. It lifts and places rocks - which I will admit is huge for me because we have so many rocks here. But a thumb lifts tree trunks for the chainsaw, and generally can put and place oddly shaped things that I once lifted by hand. Consider a thumb, and perhaps check that your backhoe choice has the option of a thumb in the future.

It is time to have a look at Mahindra models online tonight. I just don't know their offerings. That's a gap in my tractor knowledge that needs filling.
rScotty

 

[LMychajluk]

..., but because they are the only mfg who makes a compact dedicated Tractor/Loader/Backhoe with the 3pt as an accessory. As you are not going to mow with your tractor, the TLB offers a lot of advantages over a dedicated 3pt machine with the Backhoe as an accessory. They are higher priced than 3pt tractors though.

Can you elaborate on the difference between a 'dedicated TLB' and a tractor w/ a back hoe 'accessory'? Maybe an example? Thx!

 

[jeff9366]

Here is a LINK to three Kubota dedicated TLBs:
https://www.kubotausa.com/products/tractors/tractor-loader-backhoe


Dedicated TLBs have hydraulic systems with much greater flow than tractors with accessory Backhoes.

 

[rScotty]

Can you elaborate on the difference between a 'dedicated TLB' and a tractor w/ a back hoe 'accessory'? Maybe an example? Thx!

Sure, glad to...

OK, first of all, I've always been a tractor guy, but got into TLBs almost by mistake when my wife said it was time for a new tractor. I was floored when she said that, but didn't dare argue - and so off we went on a new tractor hunt. After several "ecstatic"? weekends looking at tractors & not seeing what we wanted, it finally dawned on me that I wasn't raising crops anymore. In fact the work we were doing on our land had more in common with landscaping.
So we started thinking about landscaping and that led to TLBs. Both tractors and TLBs of roughly the same size often share a common engine and transmission. But there are lots of differences.

Comparing tractors with TLBs, the tractor was originally designed to be a pulling machine. It evolved to optimize pulling implements, which is why the 3pt hitch was so important, and why all tractors have them.

Eventually tractors became better & better at pulling. Concentrating on pulling ability dictated things like how the tractors weight is distributed, the transmission type, the size of the rear & front tires, tread type, the control layout, and even the way the frame is stressed.
The evolved tractor is so versatile today that it can even hold a backhoe and work a front end loader as optional implements on each end - Even though it isn't really designed for either. It was designed to pull implements with its 3pt hitch.

The TLB (Tractor/Loader/Backhoe) was originally designed around a loader at the front and a backhoe behind. It evolved as a pushing machine because that is the best use of the front end loader. And it had to be stout to withstand backhoe forces. A TLB typically has a much stronger frame and more stability because the TLB's weight distribution, transmission, drive train, tires, controls, and frame are designed to support pushing, lifting, and carrying things with the frame mounted front end loader on one end, and then by reversing the seat the operator can still operate some tractor controls along with the frame mounted backhoe. Both the FEL and the BH can be somewhat larger than a similar tractor because of heavy TLB frame.

Then by un-hooking the backhoe the the TLB can quickly mount a 3pt hitch and become a pulling machine - much like a compact tractor can drop its 3pt hitch and mount a backhoe and subframe for digging. It's about the same effort to swap either way.

So a tractor can drop its 3pt and mount a backhoe with a subframe. And a TLB can drop its backhoe and mount a 3pt hitch. Each one does what it is designed to do very will - and each is versatile to do a decent amount of what it wasn't originally designed to do.

Some TLB downsides: Kubota is the only company currently making a compact TLB, and the overall heavier, more stable construction of the TLB that makes work as it does also makes it more expensive than a similar sized tractor. An upside is that Kubota makes very good and reliable TLBs - the B26, (L39), L47, and M62.

Hope this helps, and maybe even spurs some debate,
rScotty

 

[LMychajluk]

Thanks! I also found this Messicks video that goes into some of the details of the Kubota TLBs. Comparing Kubota TLB series tractors(B26, L47, M62) - YouTube

Based on that, no real regrets on getting the CK3510.