Everybody loves a guessing game

[BeeferMan]

Take it to a machine shop with a big press, or an auto body shop with a frame machine - it'll straighten...

 

[Farmerford]

Kevin:

It is hard to see, but you must be referring to the plate that appears just above the top of the threaded rod extending through the spring. So, that plate is close enough to the top of the rod to keep it from lifting?

My L4330 (2007?) does not have it.

There were many complaints about this a few years ago, and Kubota made a kit like my home made one to fix it. Now I see the permanent fix.

 

[kevinj]

Kevin:

It is hard to see, but you must be referring to the plate that appears just above the top of the threaded rod extending through the spring. So, that plate is close enough to the top of the rod to keep it from lifting?

My L4330 (2007?) does not have it.

There were many complaints about this a few years ago, and Kubota made a kit like my home made one to fix it. Now I see the permanent fix.

Yep, it can only lift about 1/8" and it hits the plate over the threaded rod.

 

[jcliburn]

Called two dealers today to get the price of a new QA assembly. One quoted $630 plus tax, the other $657 plus tax.

Time to get out the saw.

I'm gonna attempt to repair it myself using 638's and Ductape's advice. Cut the tube in two, then attach to bucket to ensure proper vertical and rotational alignment of the QA plates. Once connected this way, the displacement of the tube ends at the cutoff point should tell me which direction things need to be moved.

 

[kevinj]

Called two dealers today to get the price of a new QA assembly. One quoted $630 plus tax, the other $657 plus tax.

Time to get out the saw.

I'm gonna attempt to repair it myself using 638's and Ductape's advice. Cut the tube in two, then attach to bucket to ensure proper vertical and rotational alignment of the QA plates. Once connected this way, the displacement of the tube ends at the cutoff point should tell me which direction things need to be moved.

I do not know about your area, but here we have several large welding shops which have nice presses.

When I bend stuff I start with the press route, usually cheap & effective, even if they only get it real close you have a lot less work to finish the job.

You may get by with just some final heating of the tube rather than cutting or you could just blow the welds and put in a new tube.

20 to 50 bucks and a half hour will get stuff fixed with the ol' 60 ton press at my local shop:thumbsup:

 

[jcliburn]

I do not know about your area, but here we have several large welding shops which have nice presses.

Well, let's just say your area sounds quite a bit different than my area. In my area a press is what makes the county's weekly newspaper.

When I bend stuff I start with the press route, usually cheap & effective, even if they only get it real close you have a lot less work to finish the job.

You may get by with just some final heating of the tube rather than cutting or you could just blow the welds and put in a new tube.

20 to 50 bucks and a half hour will get stuff fixed with the ol' 60 ton press at my local shop.

Thanks for the advice. I'll do a little more calling around and see what I can come up with, but I'm not optimistic.

BeeferMan suggested an auto body shop up above. It's worth a try...

Jay

 

[kevinj]

Well, let's just say your area sounds quite a bit different than my area. In my area a press is what makes the county's weekly newspaper.

Jay

It must be the farmers in my area are hard on equipment to support them

I do all my own welding, fab and repair but do not own a good press, yet

 

[dstig1]

You need to check your grapple fit. It should not come off on one side.

I have a Markham bucket that was made "to skid steer spec" per Markham.
That may be true but it does not work right on Kubota due to the rebated top of the QA device.

Compare the fit to you bucket, look at the top and the bottom by the beveled pins.

Also the pins should have stops above them when latched

When hooked there was 1/2" open on the bottom by the beveled pin

I had to weld in a piece of steel to shim the top where it belonged, no problems since.

The pic should show the issue that I had.

Wow. Where were you when I was fighting this issue last fall? Post #64 and on... http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/179052-grapple-width-7.html

Another Gator/Markham grapple falling off victim... What I did - based on what Gator told me to do - was to weld on a second plate they sent me to the lower pin attachment bracket that essentially made it double thick. This did NOT solve the problem but it improved it. I was thinking about adding some blocking below that top tube for the QA top to hit against similar to what you showed, kevin. You have any more close-ups of your fix? This just reinforces the fact that I need to do that this year. Modifying brand new equipment to make it work as intended is not my idea of a good product...

I know a lot of people like these grapples, and they sure are pretty handy (when not falling off), but this one has a serious design flaw. They also told me I was "the only one" they had ever heard about with this issue. I doubted it then, and I really doubt it now.

I need to look into the pin stop issue also.

Jay - I wouldn't blame yourself. I think you are another victim of this design flaw.

Completed pic on top. During tack welding on the bottom for clarity.

Edit: Thinking about this more, this relates to a concern I had about the space behind the QA plates being open. I didn't realize that the Kubota plate's upper edge being recessed like that was quite the issue it is. I thought the plate needed to be there for other reasons (ease of mounting and stopping the plate from pushing through when stressed). If you are saying it is keeping the QA mount out of place, then it all adds up. Man I'm glad I saw this thread...

 

[jcliburn]

Well, well, well... Verrrrry interesting... Thanks for sharing, Dave. Puts a whole new spin on things.

I can't hook squat up to my SSQA right now because it's so far out of alignment, but when I get it cut/welded/straightened/lined up, I'm DEFINITELY going to pay close attention to the fit of the grapple.

Will be in touch...

Jay

 

[kevinj]

Wow. Where were you when I was fighting this issue last fall? Post #64 and on... http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/179052-grapple-width-7.html

Another Gator/Markham grapple falling off victim... What I did - based on what Gator told me to do - was to weld on a second plate they sent me to the lower pin attachment bracket that essentially made it double thick. This did NOT solve the problem but it improved it. I was thinking about adding some blocking below that top tube for the QA top to hit against similar to what you showed, kevin. You have any more close-ups of your fix? This just reinforces the fact that I need to do that this year. Modifying brand new equipment to make it work as intended is not my idea of a good product...

I know a lot of people like these grapples, and they sure are pretty handy (when not falling off), but this one has a serious design flaw. They also told me I was "the only one" they had ever heard about with this issue. I doubted it then, and I really doubt it now.

I need to look into the pin stop issue also.

Jay - I wouldn't blame yourself. I think you are another victim of this design flaw.

Completed pic on top. During tack welding on the bottom for clarity.

Edit: Thinking about this more, this relates to a concern I had about the space behind the QA plates being open. I didn't realize that the Kubota plate's upper edge being recessed like that was quite the issue it is. I thought the plate needed to be there for other reasons (ease of mounting and stopping the plate from pushing through when stressed). If you are saying it is keeping the QA mount out of place, then it all adds up. Man I'm glad I saw this thread...

I posted a bunch of this a couple years back and most did not seem to get it so I do not post it unless I can clearly see the posters issues.

Markham was not at all helpful for me. They claimed any fit issues were Kubotas fault. All they were doing is saving a small amount of steel on every item they sold. I will never buy from that outfit again!!!.

It is easy to see the fit issues when you study it. As you can see in your pic you are not bearing in the correct spot and the attachment slides down and lets the it get loose on the pins.

The shim on the bottom is the wrong way to fix it. Cut that out and put steel in to get bearing like your bucket has. That recess is 1/2" on mine so use 1/2" stock to fix it, a bar of flat stock will weigh less than a full plate.

All Markham had to do was use a 6" bar rather than the 3" at the top and no one would be having these issues.

 

[Mybota3400]

Jay
You can try Pepper's machine shop, just off Hwy 84 as you go under the I-55. First left and up the hill. Or Poters body shop in Brookhaven.

 

[dstig1]

I don't think the shim on the bottom is going anywhere at this point... there must be 5 lbs of weld on each side. I didn't trust my welding skills, so I welded every inch I could access. But I think I can still make it work with a hefty piece af angle set in between the tines on the ends in front of the QA plates. Based on the fact that the shim did imporve it, I think if I stop the QA mount from moving any more at the top, it should work fine, but the better fix would have been to do what you did up front. The shim at the bottom makes the bottom bracket incredibly sturdy now

The grapple design is different from your bucket as the upper bearing surface is actually the main tube backbone of the unit. They would have had to add on an additional plate (like I will be doing) so it isn't as simple a case as yours, but that's no excuse.

Not having dealt with other QA mounts before, I wasn't aware the Kubota style was different at the top, so it wasn't obvious to me that the top was the problem. Mine was bought from Gator (same outfit, post-Markham) and they acted totally clueless when I called them on it. I even told them what tractor I was using and they still had no clue.

Thanks for the info!

 

[kevinj]

I don't think the shim on the bottom is going anywhere at this point... there must be 5 lbs of weld on each side. I didn't trust my welding skills, so I welded every inch I could access. But I think I can still make it work with a hefty piece af angle set in between the tines on the ends in front of the QA plates. Based on the fact that the shim did imporve it, I think if I stop the QA mount from moving any more at the top, it should work fine, but the better fix would have been to do what you did up front. The shim at the bottom makes the bottom bracket incredibly sturdy now

The grapple design is different from your bucket as the upper bearing surface is actually the main tube backbone of the unit. They would have had to add on an additional plate (like I will be doing) so it isn't as simple a case as yours, but that's no excuse.

Not having dealt with other QA mounts before, I wasn't aware the Kubota style was different at the top, so it wasn't obvious to me that the top was the problem. Mine was bought from Gator (same outfit, post-Markham) and they acted totally clueless when I called them on it. I even told them what tractor I was using and they still had no clue.

Thanks for the info!

I called them on it about 3 years back when I bought that bucket for a project so They were made aware at that time.

 

[dstig1]

They changed ownership in the interim, and most or all of the original players are no longer there, as I understand it. If the new crew understood the issue, they were not letting on. They didn't blame Kubota, they just acted totally clueless as to the cause.

 

[jcliburn]

Alrighty... I have an update on my grapple detachment saga. Finally got a chance to work on it this weekend.

I fixed the twisted and bent SSQA frame that was damaged when one side of my grapple detached while in operation. The frame ain't all that pretty anymore, but it works.

After repairing the SSQA frame, I attached the offending grapple and took a close look at the fit, expecting to find something horribly obvious that would explain why it detached.

I found nothing amiss. Sigh.

Kevin, the tractor SSQA plate foot shows no gap between it and the grapple's latch slot tab at the bottom of the implement. And the latch tongue fits in the slot like a glove. (pic 1)

The spine of the grapple's strut fits flush against the SSQA plate's face just like it ought to. Each of the two struts line up perfectly with their respective SSQA plates. (pic 2, 3)

The angled top of the SSQA plate fits snugly in the implement's receiver. (pic 4)

So Kevin, I don't *think* I have the same issue you had with your bucket.

On the other hand, there isn't ANYTHING contacting the SSQA plates except that edge of the grapple's vertical strut. (indicated by the green arrow in pic 5) Do you folks think adding some metal plate on the grapple to provide more surface contact with the face of the SSQA would help?

Thanks,
Jay

 

[jcliburn]

Jay
You can try Pepper's machine shop, just off Hwy 84 as you go under the I-55. First left and up the hill. Or Poters body shop in Brookhaven.

Jack, I just now saw this. Missed it somehow.

After not getting a decent response from the body shop in Prentiss despite multiple calls to them, I decided today to just fix it myself.

Thanks a lot for the pointers to these folks in Brookhaven, though. I'll use them in the future.

Jay

 

[kevinj]

Can you get a pic of the bottom??? It looks like you have a gap at the bottom of the frame.

If so the grapple can ride up and unhook.

Maybe you forgot to latch one side or it only partly locked and was not under the block allowing the pin to rise up.

I would add one more vertical on each side so that 2 are in contact as opposed to 1. That would insure that the QA can't twist under load.

 

[jake98]

This makes me glad I went with a pin-on grapple. Sure, it's a pita sometimes, but not like that..

 

[jcliburn]

I would add one more vertical on each side so that 2 are in contact as opposed to 1. That would insure that the QA can't twist under load.

I spent the morning adding 3.5" wide, 3/8" thick plates to both sides of each vertical, from top to bottom. The grapple now has 7" wide pads instead of skinny verticals to mate with the SSQA pads.

Will send pics later.

Jay

 

[jcliburn]

First pic is of the plates I added this morning (from scrap). Each one covers pretty much all the SSQA pad behind it.

Second pic is of the bottom of the SSQA frame where it mates with the latch slot. Kevin, there may an sixteenth or an eighth of an inch gap, but not much more.

I sure hope this grapple-detachment-while-operating thing won't ever happen again. What a pita.

Jay