Excessive play in front end

[buppy69]

I have a 1500d and the play I'm getting is in the outboard gearboxes where the spindle goes through the housing. Is the spindle wore out or the housing or both? How do I correct this? The front wheels are spraddled out at the bottom.

Eugene

 

[PeteV]

Well that's a good question, I'm just finishing a complete rebuild on a very neglected front axle of a 226D that I recently purchased. I found on mine that the spindle shaft is some very hard material, and as a result it enlongated the hole in the bottom housing. I took mine to a machine shop and had them enlarge the hole and put in a bushing. Make sure that they put in a very thin bushing, as the main trustwasher that caries half the load on the front end rides on this part of the housing and you want to leave enough material there for it to rest on. If you get a chance to take it all apart go ahead it is a pretty interesting set up. there are lots of parts and pieces in there, along with a dozen shims, complicated set up, but when you get it all together just right(after a few tries) it works beatifully. maximum play of shaft in housing no more then 0.02 MM or 0.008 Inch per YM manual .

 

[vongiese]

There are shims on the spindle I believe that can be added/removed to eliminate it. A manual would show you how and where, or someone else here can tell you exactly.

 

[gbirky]

Eugene,
The damage may not be as bad as you think. As was said, the axle shaft is very hard. It is likely that the bearings are either broken, or at least very badly worn. Hopefully the seal took the worst of the damage, and the housing is ok. You may have other bearings and seals damaged as well. Before you disassemble, check where the pivot shaft goes into the housing. Move the steering wheel back and forth while you watch where the left side pivot shaft goes through the top of the housing. If it moves front to back while you move the steering wheel, then these bearings and seals need to be replaces as well.

Greg

 

[buppy69]

I've already had it apart and put it bact together twice. There are no bearings on the spindle. That's what I thought the problem was before disassembly so I thought it was an easy fix. Just replace the bearings but there are none.

Eugene

 

[gbirky]

NO SPINDLE BEARINGS!!! That is really surprising. What is in there? There has to be bearings, bushings or something to take the load on the spindles. I'll see if I can get a YM1500D parts manual and take a look.

Greg

 

[buppy69]

It looks like there is a bushing in the top hole of the upper housing. This is the only contact point on the spindle.

Eugene

 

[roger_scotty]

Buppy, are you sure? Yanmar made several variations on that steering spindle, but all of them had a bearing - usually at the top where the spindle goes through the top of the casting. Got to have one somewhere because the whole weight of the tractor is on that joint. Without a bearing it would be real hard to steer. Has anyone got an expoded view of the 1500D??

 

[buppy69]

I'm not sure of anything. The view shows a nut, lock washer and flat washer on the end of the spindle but nothing else I can see. Am I missing something?

Eugene

 

[bruce1966us]

There a 2 versions of the YM1500 front hub. One has bearings. The other has a bushing like the YM1300 ( I think). I'll check the parts book and see. Eugene, how are the 2 needle bearings that ride on the shaft?

Thanks,
Bruce

 

[buppy69]

The needle bearings are very loose but the play appears to be where the spindle goes through the upper housing just below the nut and washers. I've tried 3 times to attach the parts breakdown page. The text goes through but the picture doesn't. It doesn't show any bushings as far as I can see.
Eugene

 

[bruce1966us]

The needle bearings should not be loose. That could be a big part of the problem. The needle bearings should be snug inside the gear assembly.

Thanks,
Bruce

 

[reb]

The parts manual shows the housing is two castings with what appears to be a bushing between them. I can't read japanese, so I'm not sure. "TC115 140 15" follows the japanese description. My manual has pages added to show the older 1500D model, which is similar. It uses a different bushing.

reb

 

[roger_scotty]

Can you email me a scan? Every diagram I have is for the US models, but they do go back to 1976. At that time some models used an axial thrust bearing and others got by with a ball bearing loaded in thrust.(at the top of the steering spindle) None of the models used a plain bushing there. Anyway, where the spindle goes through the top of the casting should be tight even if he has to machine the hole out to fit a standard bearing and seal.
Buppy said that the old spindle and bushing was loose enough to cause the wheels to splay, so anything will be an improvement. I wonder if that bushing was a backyard fix or if Yanmar used it.
Agree that it would be nice if the needles were a good fit, but they will get by. The fit of the spindle through the casting is probably more important..... especially if the wheels are splaying out!

 

[gbirky]

reb,
The "TC115 140 15" is a seal number. The numbers are the dimensions in mm. It has an inside (the sealing surface) diameter of 115mm, outside diameter (in casting) of 140mm, and a thickness of 15mm. This has to be the mammoth seal that goes between the upper and lower cast pieces of the steering "knuckle" part of the front axle system (where the tower gears run).

Greg

 

[EFC]

I have the fix. email me buck@efcconstruction.com

 

[roger_scotty]

Finally got to look at the scan of the YM1500D front end. Thanks to Eugene for sending a copy to me. As far as I can see, it is real typical of the early YM series spindles in design. The spindle is bolted to the lower casting, passes right up through both castings and protrudes from the upper to mount the steering bellcrank. The dual pinion bearings run on the spindle supported by needle rollers. The spindle itself has is located in the upper casting by two ball bearings....a large lower one and a smaller upper one that is right below where the spindle protrudes through the casting. I don't see any bushing, and there is the typical large oil seal that separates the castings.

 

[gbirky]

Roger,
So what you are calling the "spindle" is the vertical pivot shaft on which the "tower gears" rotate. In my automotive lingo, the spindle is the shaft on which the brake drum or rotor runs, or is attached to. So on the tractor axle, the "spindle" would be the horizontal shaft which has the mounting plate for the wheel welded to the end rather than the vertical pivot shaft.

Greg

 

[roger_scotty]

Good call. My own opinion - not backed up by anything more than a lifetime of mechanical work - is that mechanical lingo seems to still be sorting itself out.

I call shafts which rotate completely around as "axles" and shafts which have limited or no rotation as "spindles". So what I am referring to in our thread here is what I call the steering spindle - or vertical steering spindle -and in older cars I would call a part which does a similar steering function the "king pin". Though in my lingo the 4wd Yanmar steering spindle has two jobs: Steering plus mounting the drive pinions. Dang! I see what you mean....I almost called that shaft an "axle" just then because it mounts two rotating parts. So I'm not consistent with it either. Thinking on it farther, to me a spindle is usually suppported at one end. When it gets supported on both ends it begins to get into "axle" territory. But I need to call the Yanmar part a spindle because there are two true axles on each side of the tractor and I need to differentiate the steering shaft from those true axle shafts.

In 2wd cars I would also call as a spindle the non-rotating part that projects from the brake mounting plate and which supports the front wheel. In an old style 4wd truck like my old chevy it has a steering spindle, as well as the wheel mounting spindle I just mentioned. But on that truck the wheel mounting spindle is hollow and has a fluted drive axle running through it for 4wd. Whew!

We seem to still be building our mechanical language and it does vary from place to place. By no means to I claim that my terminology is the only way....or even the right way.