Experience with making an arena

GrantMO · Mar 10, 2001

Late last fall I posted a similar question on Yesterday's Tractors and I wanted to see what youralls experience has been with making an outdoor arena. God willing, we might be able to do this project this summer, unlike the creek project from another thread.
My wife is looking to make an outdoor riding arena 100x200 feet. Since the site in question is pretty flat with deep topsoil I won't have to move huge amounts of dirt but will have to take off some sod in places and crown it for drainage.
Keeping in mind that my first goal is cost containment, my questions would be: would a box scraper and rear blade do the job? How much crown would provide for good drainage? Is compacting the top soil necessary prior to adding the footing (sand) ? I appreciate your responses.....

cowboydoc · Mar 10, 2001

Grant,
Now you're talking my speciality!!! Give me specifics on exactly what you want the arena for and what you are going to be doing. I have built alot of arenas both indoors and out. I may have a better way than worrying about crowning too that will save you alot of time keeping the arena nice. For equipment all you really need is a good disc and a harrow if the ground is already flat. Let me know and I'll get you going for little money at all.

gerard · Mar 10, 2001

cowboy doc I'll be following this post closely. We put in our indoor already but are in the process of making the outdoor. We had to move about 2 feet from the high side to the low side so I hired out to a dozer. Took him about 8 hours so i know it would have taken me forever with my compact. So far we have a flat area and are waiting for settling after the spring thaw. I was considering getting it rolled for compression before putting down footing but was interested in your ideas for drainage. Are you talking drain tile?? PS I know I still owe you a picture of my "manure screeen" in action - it's really so simple I'm almost embarrassed to post it but I will!!

LazyK · Mar 10, 2001

Doc Richard...here are my aches and pains in the arena region. Is there hope...?
1) 80x200 covered, perimeter-sheathed w/ exterior treated OSB 4x8 sheets varying 3-6 inches below the riding surface; native sandy loam soil aprox.
12-15 feet deep w/pocket ribbons of hardpan marble-ing 8-10% (fairly bustable grey, not blue); overhead watering system is 6 zone x 3 impact rainbirds per zone, 1-zone-on-at-a-time, auto controlled sequence and duration (whew!)
PROBLEM: "washboard" woop-de-doo's starting to appear now, after 2 years or so of successfully being able to drag/groom the surface with a chain harrow/drag pulled w/ my JD 4200. I used to be able to level the whole buckwheat in 20 minutes going slow and easy! Once or twice a season I would clump-bust the whole surface with a boxblade, teeth set fairly deep. After this homogenizing plow, I used to be able to drag the surface, points down, then points up with the chain-harrow, zip the ol' railroad tie across slowly and BINGO it looked like a brown, felt snooker table for the Jolly Green Giant. Alas, not lately. Any cure, Doc? Please don't say, "Quit sniveling and rent your arena out as a Moto-Cross
course!" Not a bad idea...or maybe a Miniature Golf Course...Driving Range(naw, I usually have to PUTT 200'!)

Lazy K - Chip

cowboydoc · Mar 10, 2001

Chip,
Anyway to get me a picture of what it looks like? I think I know what you're talking about. What I don't know is are the humps caused from the marbling coming through the sand or are the humps caused from only the topsoil being worked? Without knowing more here are two suggestions about what to try until I know more. There are two ways to go about this. The first is the cheapest and may or may not work. What you need to do is get a two or three bottom plow and plow the whole thing up as deep as you can go. You may have to get a bigger tractor I'm not sure what the 4300 will do. Plow it both ways, north and south, and east and west. Next get a really heavy disc and disc it as smooth as you can get it. After this you should be able to start over again with the way you used to dress the arena. Now if your problem is actually the soil moving then you've got a more serious problem. Let me know some more before we go into that route. Remember though when you do drag no matter what anyone tells you, only dress the top 2-4" of an arena. If you do more it's way too hard on a horse legs to move in that kind of arena. I've seen alot of horses ruined from footing being too deep.

cowboydoc · Mar 10, 2001

Gerard,
You bet tile it! Buy the tile with a sleeve on it. You can get it here for $24 for a 200 foot roll, CHEAP! Then in your arena tile from the high to the low side or use a level and just keep angling it down to where it's going to come out at. Put in the tile on the short part of the arena, ie if you ahve a 80x200 arena put the tile lenghtways across the 80 foot part. Do this every 15 foot. I have done this on the arenas I've built out here, Iowa where there is alot of rain, and you can ride the day after even a big storm. Make sure and go at least a foot deep though so you won't snag them when you groom your arena. I also did this in my round pens and I can go out there two hours after it rains and work in it.

markcg2000 · Mar 10, 2001

Sigh, its threads like this that remind me just how ignorant I really am. Ok, what is "tile"? I thought it was that hard, glazed stuff that you put in the bathroom/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif, but I always here people talking about it whenever drainage comes up. I figured from their talk it was some sort of conduit... is that right?

mark

GrantMO · Mar 10, 2001

Richard,
We plan to use the arena for jumping, training the Clydesdale probably including a cart at some point, and general riding/training. We're not absolutely set on the dimensions but probably can go only another 50 feet either way and still stay flat. I was planning on about 3 inches of sand. So, the tile drain is the way to go? I may not be able to run the tile across the short side but I'd have to go look to really say for sure. Sounds like the middle buster would be an easy way to dig the drainage trench.

GrantMO · Mar 10, 2001

Mark,
If I'm on the same page as Richard, the tile is the black plastic slotted flexible tube you see put in around the base of the foundation on houses, then covered with gravel.

Richard, I'm in luck that I have access to my friends JD 620 and a 10 foot or maybe bigger disk. I don't think anything I could pull behind the 8N would do the job for disking. It would do okay for harrowing.

cowboydoc · Mar 10, 2001

Grant,
If you get the tile with the sock no need to put in gravel over it. My one arena that I've had for six years now still drains great and all I did on it was cover it with dirt.

Now as far as your arena goes I would just use the soil that you have. Are you going to just practice or are you going to use this for competitive jumping? If it's just for you and praticing and you want to save money I wouldn't even get sand. Just keep the top four inches nice and harrowed up or get one of those arena groomers with the money you'd save from having sand hauled in. Initially you'll want to plow and disc it up and then after that just work the top 2-4". If you do decide you absolutely want to go sand you have to get the right sand. Don't get just regular river sand as it is not very good for horses and if you ever feed in the arena you always have to watch out for sand colic and feed a sand remover. In my opinion unless you have an indoor don't even bother with sand, way too much cost for the little benefit. Also it gets washed away really easy, etc.

Ok now for the building of the arena. If you really want to go cheap you can build one for less than $1000 six' tall that is sturdy and isn't cheap looking or you can go really fancy. I'll start with the simplest, cheapest and sturdy. Then if you want more ideas I'll be glad to help. As soon as I get my digital back I can take pics of any arena that you may want and send to you. Ok the easiest one to build is out of 2x6's, horse woven wire, and railroad ties (you can use any posts that you want but the ties are usually the cheapest and sturdiest). For a 100x200 you will need 60 railroad ties, 60 2x6's, and two rolls of woven wire. Here in Iowa for the one I built last year I got the ties for $6 a piece, the 2x6's were rough cut from a local saw mill out of oak for $5 a piece and two rolls of woven wire was $75 a roll. For your arena this would have been $810. I spent a little more but I made mine a roping arena so there was the building of the chutes and the return alley. Basically you build it with the ties 10 foot apart. Get five foot tall horse fence and then go six foot and put the 2x6's on top of that. The 2x6's that I get are rough cut and then I treat them every year so they last. That's the basics there. If you want to go with this one I'll get you a pic of the one I have here. Your other option if you don't want to build one is to buy the panels and put one together yourself. You can take a look at one of these at www.redriverarenas.com. They are a little pricey but you have the convenience of always being able to move and little effort putting it up. Another thing to consider is putting up a three sided shelter on the end of the arena. This way you have another place to keep horses, cattle, etc. The one I put up last year with the arena was only $1100 and it was 15x36. Your other options, but more expensive, are to do it all out of wood, pvc fencing, etc. I've done or helped do them all so let me know what your thoughts are and I can help you out.

cowboydoc · Mar 10, 2001

Grant,
Also if you decide to just use the existing dirt just plow that sod under and disc it really well and don't even worry about taking off the sod. Mine was all sod where I built last year and I just plowed and disced it up and it was fine.

cowboydoc · Mar 10, 2001

Mark,
Grant is right. The tile I'm talking about is either 4 or 6" black plastic flexible tubing. It has holes cut in it that lets the water drain off of where ever it is. You can buy it with a "sock" over it that doesn't let dirt in and plug it up and then you don't have to use gravel. The sock is made out of a very durable material that lets water through but not dirt and keeps them from plugging up over the years.

GrantMO · Mar 10, 2001

Richard,
Our arena would be just for practice. My wife is selling her main jumper and would be working the draft horse and riding her other jumper to keep him in shape. She decided that show jumping didn't fit too well with the idea of getting pregnant the next year or two. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
I like your idea of railroad ties and 2X6 with field fence. Right now we have a round pen the previous owner made of 4x4s and heavy hogwire panels. It's right where we plan to put the new arena. It has a sand footing but it's been there a long time and the sand is degraded so I plan to pull the sand to the side and decide later what to do with it.
Please send me a photo(s) when you get them of the basic arena. Also where did you get the sleeved drain tile? Maybe there is an outlet around here. Home Depot and another lumber store want too much for the tile here and don't have the sleeves! Did you use your auger for the holes? I'll probably email you a drawing of the site and see what you think about where the tile should go. Thanks.

cowboydoc · Mar 10, 2001

Grant,
Yes you can use 4x4's or whatever for the posts. I've found the railroad ties last the longest and are the strongest and cheapest. The tile I get from the local contractor's supply. I saw it at Lowe's when I was there too. If you don't have anywhere to drain it to you can dig a ditch on the side of your arena to run the tile into. I've seen a few guys do it this way. Just have to cap off the end of the tiles with a drain so they don't get plugged up. There is also a kit that you can buy that you can drain them into but that gets pricey. You can also use cattle panels instead of the woven wire but it's more money. For the holes I used the auger on some but I bought a post pounder at a farm sale three years ago that works wonders. The railroad ties are usually 8' or so. I usually bury them so there is 6 foot sticking up. This makes a very sturdy pen that even the clydesdale will bounce off of. I don't think I mentioned before that the lumbar is rough lumbar so it is a full 2x6, but you can use any size from 2x4 to 2x12. I think 2x6 is fine though. All you're really using it for is a guide any. I also have a friend that I helped that built his with high tensile fence. He used 3 or 4" posts with 2 posts in between and then the high tensile wire in between that. I helped a guy last fall that used old pipe from Oklahoma that they had used for drilling. The pipe was cheap but you have to weld it all together. One thing though it will never rot!

As little as it sounds like the pen will get used I would definitely just go with a regular dirt arena. You will spend as much on sand as you will the whole arena. My indoor that I built a few years ago by the house is only 50x70 and to get four inches of sand in it I had to have 150 tons of sand delivered. It cost almost eight hundred dollars just for the sand and trucking. You're talking about more than double that one's size. As far as the sand that is already there I would just disc it in with dirt there that you have. Spread it out with your blade and just plow and disc it and you should be fine.

If your wife is planning on getting pregnant you probably won't even use the arena after that!!!! My kid's are five and three and my wife just started last year to get back into the horses again. You don't realize how much time kids take until you have them. Ours are finally at the age where they can be outside with us all the time and do things. We went on our first family trail ride and get away last summer and it was the best time I've ever had. I was so proud of my little girls riding all on their own. We had a blast! I bought a living quarters horse trailer and it was just great. We hope to do alot more camping and horse riding this year.

jimmoore · Mar 11, 2001

Here in Arkansas that tile with the holes in it for drainage is called a "French drain"

jim

GrantMO · Mar 12, 2001

Richard,
Attached is my attempt at drawing a site map. The red is the arena boundary, the blue lines are where tile drains would go. It's not to scale and the changes in elevation are approximate. The barn and future arena sit on a fairly flat area like a small plateau and I think it's impractical to drain east. It's actually farther to the edge of the "plateau" than I've drawn. The thick blue line is where I need to put in tile anyway to help divert water off the roof and from a low spot near the barn. Is it possible to run the arena drains into that larger one emptying to the south? I know a ditch would work better but I'm not sure I could put one there.

cowboydoc · Mar 12, 2001

Grant,
You bet you can run them all into one and it will work just fine. What I did off of my barn is I ran 4" tiles into a 6" tile and ran that to the gulley where all the run off water goes. Just make sure that it all runs downhill to where you want to go. I have a transit that I use but you don't have to use one. Hey also don't make the mistake of putting the tile with the holes down. I've seen some people do that and wonder why it never drained. The tile will have holes either on the top or the bottom. Put it with the holes to the top. I know that goes without saying but some people aren't even aware that it makes a difference. I will get you some pics tomorrow if I get out of here in time to get home before it gets dark. I finally got my digital back today from being repaired.

markcg2000 · Mar 13, 2001

...I know that goes without saying...

Richard, you truly do underestimate the depths of my ignorance/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif.

I assumed the holes went down/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif. And I ain't a goin' to tell you why I thought that way, neither.

mark

I just reread that and I think I'm quoting Harv - need to give credit where it's due /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gifEdited by markcg2000 on 03/13/01 10:42 AM (server time).

DavidH · Mar 13, 2001

Mark: Don't feel bad. I've looked at that black perforated pipe numerous times, in planning for future projects, and I just assumed the holes were all the way around the pipe. I never realized that there was a top and bottom.

DaveH

GrantMO · Mar 14, 2001

Richard,
Okay, I thought of a few more questions. How much did you slope your underground tiles from one end to the other, both the arena ones and the main drainage? Did you just dig a two foot trench and gradually fill in over the length using a level to make sure it slopes downward? Did you rent a ditch witch to dig that many trenchs? When you get a good rain, do you see a substantial amount of water coming out your main?

Mark, don't feel bad at all. I am a novice at all this myself and only can thank God that I had some construction experience out of high school that helps me understand a few things along the way. I went from being divorced 4 years ago to married, owning 4 horses, a tractor and a barn with acreage to fix up and take care of now and I wouldn't have it any other way. I have to ask questions about every project I do and this board has been a great help in answering many of them!