Experienced Deck Builders?

[dalola]

My summer project at the camp will be a small 8'x12' free standing deck.

Looking for guidance on support structure. Right now, the plan is to use concrete deck blocks setting on grade. Is there something better/easier? How many should I use? Should I stay on 16" centers, or is 24" OK? Planning to use 2x6 pressure treated frame, with 5/4 top boards.

Deck location is established compacted soil, slight slope (1-2 degrees), usage as a patio/dining area for 2-4 people.

Thoughts/ideas?

 

[RNeumann]

How far off the ground

 

[ovrszd]

Hopefully Eddie Walker will chime in. He's a very knowledgeable builder.

From my not so good builder mind I will say 8x12 will be extremely crowded with 4 people. You might want to stake off an area this size on the ground and furnish it with everything you intend to put on your deck.

 

[bcp]

I'm tired of wood.

If I wasn't on a hillside, I would give up wooden decks. I get about 8-10 years between major rebuilds with treated wood.

If I wanted a slightly raised deck on flat land, I'd build a retaining block perimeter, fill with gravel, then pavers of some kind. Or maybe just poured concrete.

Bruce

 

[dalola]

How far off the ground

At the furthest part of the slope, maybe 12-16".

Hopefully Eddie Walker will chime in. He's a very knowledgeable builder.

From my not so good builder mind I will say 8x12 will be extremely crowded with 4 people. You might want to stake off an area this size on the ground and furnish it with everything you intend to put on your deck.

Valid point, but this is just a camp, and I'm kind of restricted by trees (in the woods). There are also other places to hang out, so this is just kind of a spot when sitting around the small patio table. I might be able to get another 2 feet out of it (10x12), I'll have to measure next time I'm down. I did string it off last fall, and I do think it would be ok, even at 8x12. Will certainly look at it again before setting the plans.

 

[Diggin It]

My summer project at the camp will be a small 8'x12' free standing deck.

Looking for guidance on support structure. Right now, the plan is to use concrete deck blocks setting on grade. Is there something better/easier? How many should I use? Should I stay on 16" centers, or is 24" OK? Planning to use 2x6 pressure treated frame, with 5/4 top boards.

Deck location is established compacted soil, slight slope (1-2 degrees), usage as a patio/dining area for 2-4 people.

Thoughts/ideas?

Yes. They make special concrete piers, about 12 x 12 with a recess for the 4x4 posts.

I'd run one level of 2x6s at 24 OC in one direction, then another level of 2x6s perpendicular at 16 OC similar to what's shown above. I'm not sure I'd do what they did with the 4x4s though. I usually lag through the joists into the posts.. Edge board of 2x8 or 2x10 around the perimeter. Deck boards laid perpendicular to the top 2 x 6s and over the edge of the perimeter boards. Use deck hardware, joist hangars, corners, angles, etc. as needed.

At the furthest part of the slope, maybe 12-16".


Valid point, but this is just a camp, and I'm kind of restricted by trees (in the woods). There are also other places to hang out, so this is just kind of a spot when sitting around the small patio table. I might be able to get another 2 feet out of it (10x12), I'll have to measure next time I'm down. I did string it off last fall, and I do think it would be ok, even at 8x12. Will certainly look at it again before setting the plans.

I'd do that if possible. Not very easy to add on later. Try to use dimensions that require as little cutting of boards as possible, even if you have utility power available.


Site like Lowes and HD usually have deck building configurators that will call out most of the lumber and hardware you'll need.

 

[dalola]

I'm tired of wood.

If I wasn't on a hillside, I would give up wooden decks. I get about 8-10 years between major rebuilds with treated wood.

If I wanted a slightly raised deck on flat land, I'd build a retaining block perimeter, fill with gravel, then pavers of some kind. Or maybe just poured concrete.

Bruce

Thought about that too....but I'm thinking it's considerably more work & cost. Leaning towards the wood at the moment. Around here, when cared for, pressure treated wood lasts a long time.

Yes. They make special concrete piers, about 12 x 12 with a recess for the 4x4 posts.

I'd run one level of 2x6s at 24 OC in one direction, then another level of 2x6s perpendicular at 16 OC similar to what's shown above. I'm not sure I'd do what they did with the 4x4s though. I usually lag through the joists into the posts.. Edge board of 2x8 or 2x10 around the perimeter. Deck boards laid perpendicular to the top 2 x 6s and over the edge of the perimeter boards. Use deck hardware, joist hangars, corners, angles, etc. as needed.

I'd do that if possible. Not very easy to add on later. Try to use dimensions that require as little cutting of boards as possible, even if you have utility power available.

Site like Lowes and HD usually have deck building configurators that will call out most of the lumber and hardware you'll need.

Yes, that's what I'm referring to as deck blocks. Seems like a great idea!

That style might put me up too high at the high end of the slope. I have less than a foot of height to work with there, to match up to the front porch of our cabin. I was thinking of running the braces inside the frame, vs on top like the pic. Excavation is out also, due to all the trees & roots.

I wonder how often one of those blocks is needed? I was thinking maybe every 4 sq ft? Maybe too much?

 

[M E Cook]

i would set 4x4 in the ground and guild off of them concrete them if you want iy really stable

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I've used those concrete blocks and I don't like them. You need a lot of them, the recommended spacing is small, and getting them all level to start with is a pain. They will sink into the ground, at different rates, and your deck will wobble. For just a simple deck I'd build it on skids, just two 6x6's lying on the ground along the long dimension. It's a lot easier to get level and square. I'd frame the deck with 2x6's on 16" centers. I probably wouldn't attach the framing to the skids so if I ever needed to move it or adjust it I could pick it up, I don't think it would move.

If the deck is more than about 7" off the ground you're going to want steps or railings and then things get complicated. You could set the skids into the ground to keep it low. Another alternative is a single step running the length of one side.

 

[Diggin It]

For a small deck close to the ground, you don't really need that many. I'd say 6-8 for the size mentioned, maybe 10. Using the short 4x4s, the blocks don't need to be leveled to each other. Set the blocks so the surface of each is level. Add 4x4s at the corners, use a line to determine level and mark the 4x4s with a pencil or chalk line, then set the 2x6s to those marks. Add the rest of the 4x4s and cut them off flush with the top of the 2x6s. The surface will be level even if the blocks aren't.

Can the blocks settle into soft ground over time? Sure can. But OP stated the ground is full of rocks and roots, so it may not be too likely there.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

My summer project at the camp will be a small 8'x12' free standing deck.

Looking for guidance on support structure. Right now, the plan is to use concrete deck blocks setting on grade. Is there something better/easier? How many should I use? Should I stay on 16" centers, or is 24" OK? Planning to use 2x6 pressure treated frame, with 5/4 top boards.

Deck location is established compacted soil, slight slope (1-2 degrees), usage as a patio/dining area for 2-4 people.

Thoughts/ideas?

If you are going to do an 8 x 12 you might as well do a 12 x 12. That will fit a small round table and 4 chairs with some room to move around. I don't like the concrete deck blocks on grade, though. Dig down 3 feet and do it right.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Yes. They make special concrete piers, about 12 x 12 with a recess for the 4x4 posts.

I'd run one level of 2x6s at 24 OC in one direction, then another level of 2x6s perpendicular at 16 OC similar to what's shown above. I'm not sure I'd do what they did with the 4x4s though. I usually lag through the joists into the posts.. Edge board of 2x8 or 2x10 around the perimeter. Deck boards laid perpendicular to the top 2 x 6s and over the edge of the perimeter boards. Use deck hardware, joist hangars, corners, angles, etc. as needed.




I'd do that if possible. Not very easy to add on later. Try to use dimensions that require as little cutting of boards as possible, even if you have utility power available.


Site like Lowes and HD usually have deck building configurators that will call out most of the lumber and hardware you'll need.

Deck building ideas are like opinions, we all have one. The above is nice and would be improved with some lateral bracing to eliminate any shimmying.

 

[ultrarunner]

I'm tired of wood.

If I wasn't on a hillside, I would give up wooden decks. I get about 8-10 years between major rebuilds with treated wood.

If I wanted a slightly raised deck on flat land, I'd build a retaining block perimeter, fill with gravel, then pavers of some kind. Or maybe just poured concrete.

Bruce

Amen brother... Decks and walks were all 100% new in 2005 and I just spend 60k rebuilding and this does not include the stairs to the water... Western WA is brutal on exposed wood.

A lot of the cost was going with a composite for the decking...

Also... not originally part of the project was water infiltration behind the cedar siding which showed no problems... a window trim framing detail with mitered corners let water on the weather side get behind the siding AND vapor barrier...

I thought about retaining and fill and other ideas but lots of restrictions with water front when doing any other than repair...

 

[timswi]

When I did mine 4 years ago at camp (12x24) we built the 6x12 frames in my garage at home and hauled them up on the trailer. Since I'm covered in roots, we set 12x12 pads down every 6 feet--3 across the 12' width and every 6' down the length and carrage bolted the frame boxes and 4x4's together. We just leveled the deck to the site using varying 4x4 lengths. The deck is only 2' off the ground. So far no sinking or other movement. Obviously this isn't code for residential but it works well at my camp. And its moveable if needed.

 

[dalola]

Lots of good ideas rolling in, TY!

As mentioned, I can't increase size too much due to trees....I will remeasure to see if I can get maybe 10x12, but I know I can't get 12x12. Also not worried about settling, with all the tree roots, rocks, etc.. Very hard ground, very minimal excavating.

I like the skid base idea, I will look further into that. Might be easier than the deck blocks, and I can level out with concrete blocks & PT wood. I would think it would also minimize ground contact points.

 

[ovrszd]

I'm assuming you have Winter frost? If so, you need to address that in your build.

 

[Egon]

I'm tired of wood.

If I wasn't on a hillside, I would give up wooden decks. I get about 8-10 years between major rebuilds with treated wood.

If I wanted a slightly raised deck on flat land, I'd build a retaining block perimeter, fill with gravel, then pavers of some kind. Or maybe just poured concrete.

Bruce

I’d also go with this method.

 

[Diggin It]

While I might do that at home, we don't know how remote this camp area is or what kind of access there would be to move those materials.

 

[s219]

I've built a lot of decks attached to homes, but last year I built a freestanding deck for our back yard. It's in a resource protection area near the waterline, so it couldn't be a permanent structure. I also wanted it low to the ground so it wouldn't obstruct views from our home and didn't require steps. I think it takes a little bit different approach if you want it low to the ground. So I did the math and ended up with 4x4 skids running one way and 2x4 framing (16" on center) running across. 5/4" deck boards on top. The skids are supported with concrete blocks dug in and leveled. It's extremely rigid and stiff, with zero bounce. I haven't had any settling, but it would be easy to jack the deck up and shim a block if needed. I can also move it elsewhere if I have to, although I don't plan to!

I went 12x12 and to me that is a minimum size for a deck if you want people to mill around and be able to place chairs. Here are some pics:

 

[Diggin It]

I was going to ask how you attached the joists to the skids, but then I saw the 2x4 blocks.