external pto pump help

aviationben · Nov 27, 2009

I'm converting my hydraulic pump from another project to a pto pump for my log splitter, backhoe, etc.. I purchased a coupler from surplus center to adapt the 3/4 pump shaft to the pto splines, and made a temporary mount to hold the pump. The setup worked, but I noticed the pump was twisting on the mount. I removed the pump and inserted a straight 3/4 rod and it seems they didn't bore it correctly. YouTube - P1011771.MOV

Is there any other sources for this type of adapter. The adapter is shot now and I doubt the will refund it.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009112720531826&catname=&qty=1&item=1-2456

J_J · Nov 27, 2009

I think you will get that slop just from the splines. Was the 3/4 side a good fit, and was it secured by a couple of set screws? The adapter is going to wobble some. Did you secure it from just hanging weight?

aviationben · Nov 27, 2009

yea, set screws were used. The splines are very tight, new tractor, new adapter. I supported the pump to the draw bar bracket. I also tried holding it by hand and it still wobbles too much..

IceStationZebra · Nov 27, 2009

If you intend to leave the pump on for long periods of time you might be better off mounting the pump rigidly to the tractor. CaseIH, JD and others do this all the time for large corn planter pumps. Remove the PTO shield and use the bosses it mounts with. For a coupler you can use a double chain set-up. Just make sure to put the guard back on when you remove the pump.

ISZ

aviationben · Nov 27, 2009

I mounted it temporary to the draw bar with some scrap steel. I tried yesterday adding a rubber isolator joint (used on my ford 8n stinger pump), but because if the alignment of the adapter, it made it worse.

My final mount will look something like the one selling on ebay Hydraulic Pump For Tractor PTO - eBay (item 270488891178 end time Nov-28-09 16:42:30 PST)

JoelD · Nov 28, 2009

aviationben said:
I'm converting my hydraulic pump from another project to a pto pump for my log splitter, backhoe, etc.. I purchased a coupler from surplus center to adapt the 3/4 pump shaft to the pto splines, and made a temporary mount to hold the pump. The setup worked, but I noticed the pump was twisting on the mount. I removed the pump and inserted a straight 3/4 rod and it seems they didn't bore it correctly. YouTube - P1011771.MOV

Is there any other sources for this type of adapter. The adapter is shot now and I doubt the will refund it.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009112720531826&catname=&qty=1&item=1-2456

I did exactly what you are doing, I mounted a pump, amost identical to yours to my PTO.

I used the surplus center quick attach coupler with the keyed round shaft to 6 spline.

I built a plate which I mounted my pump to, and then used the adapter to tie the pump to the PTO shaft.

I did not rigid mount my bracket as in the end my PTO shaft was not absolutely straight and had a tiny wabble to it, I actually replaced my PTO shaft to get it straighter but still not perfect.

I pinned my mounting plate to the bottom bracket on my three point which on my tractor was a plate with a hole in hit. I then bunggied (spelling) the pump to the tractor so that it would not walk off the spline and fall off the back of the tractor. (my PTO shaft did not have a ridge in it for the quick release adapter to click into, it if had, the bungies would not have been needed.

The key to a PTO pump to to stop if from spinning under load, that is about all you need to worry about. I've seen some use a chain to stop the spinning, You really do not need to support it, just stop it from spinning.

My set up ran a backhoe and I used it for years. The only problem I ran into was one time I let the set screws loosen up and the shaft spun, I replaced key and did not let the set screws loosen up after that.

Please feel free to PM if I can help. It is easy in the end and works great while saving tons of money over a PTO pump.

Joel

JoelD · Nov 28, 2009

Picture of my pump mount.

chopped · Nov 28, 2009

Hvae to agree with Joel mine has nothing to 'support' it, and wobles slightly. Its how it was set up from th dealer and I just never gave it much thought.
Just a bracket to keep it from spinning. I assumed thats how they were all set up to run. Its been15 years without a problem.

Kernopelli · Nov 28, 2009

Great thread, I have been contemplating this very thing for a backhoe. You can pick up pumps like this on Ebay for a fraction of what a Prince PTO pump costs. I had never seen anyone convert one to adapt to a PTO. I knew it could be done but glad to see some actual applications before I dive in. Can you guys tell me what brand/models you are using?
Thanks for posting this.

aviationben · Nov 28, 2009

Thanks everyone. I was worried about not supporting the shaft rigid and maybe causing something else to go bad. I'll try and fab up another bracket to allow to pump to move slightly and find it own center.

The pump is a counter clockwise rotating gear pump. Surplus Center item 9-4849-k. 1.22 cu in made by hydreco, for $116.00. I've used it for about 8 years on my ford 8n's wagner loader. It has good power and volume at low rpms.

aviationben · Nov 28, 2009

you can see the pump wobble here YouTube - P1011772.MOV

I think it still too much movement. I'm either going to have to try another adapter or take this to a machine shop and see if it could be trued up somehow. I tried it on my neighbors tractor and it does the same.

IceStationZebra · Nov 28, 2009

The advantage of the rigidly mounted pump is that the double-chain type of coupling can compensate for a slightly bent shaft or adapter. It is OK to overhang the pump, its just a matter of wear. Eventually you will wear the PTO shaft and pump bearings. Most hydraulically driven hay cutters do. If you only use it occasionally you will probably never see any wear. Another thing to consider is how much the hoses are pulling on the pump.

ISZ

enew · Dec 13, 2009

I dont know if it would have enough volume to run a splitter but Char-Lynn pumps were use for many years before factories put pumps on tractors. All self contained, run off the PTO with a valvebody built into the pump. Used one on my Oliver for years for the FEL.

beenthere · Dec 13, 2009

I'd think "don't fight it" and let the pump wobble freely. Keep it from rotating with a chain connect.

Trying to hold it still, just binds it up, in either the tractor bearings of the pump bearings.

Otherwise, mount the pump with the chain drive, or further back with a flexible (or PTO shaft) connection.

brandoro · Dec 13, 2009

The (factory) pump for my LandPride BH just hangs on the shaft. There are two steel round bars with heater hose on them that fit up one on each side of the top link as an anti rotation device. It wobbles slightly too, has around 200 hours on it with no problems.

aviationben · Dec 13, 2009

I got the replacement adapter from surplus. It's much better. The tractor is new, never had a pto attachment on it yet so I'm hoping nothing is wrong there. I'm using the chain method to keep it spinning, it's working good at the moment.

dourobob · Dec 14, 2009

Kernopelli said:
Great thread, I have been contemplating this very thing for a backhoe. You can pick up pumps like this on Ebay for a fraction of what a Prince PTO pump costs. I had never seen anyone convert one to adapt to a PTO. I knew it could be done but glad to see some actual applications before I dive in. Can you guys tell me what brand/models you are using?
Thanks for posting this.

I am in the same position and would be very interested if one of the experts could point to a Canadian (Ontario) source for a pump that would be equivalent (or better) in capacity to this Prince one (and much cheaper)

Burden Sales Surplus Center Item Detail

keeping in mind it would be on a 540 RPM PTO and I am hoping to generate about 30 HP at the motor.

Thanks
Bob

J_J · Dec 14, 2009

How about this using 540 PTO. Takes about 32 HP to run it, and gives about 27.2 HP at the motor, if motor is sized correctly. HCP-K26

Results for Hydraulic Pumps

TO Pumps

Results for Hydraulic Pumps

TO Pumps

The one you posted will do the same thing. Just another supplier.

There is one pump that will pump 40 GPM, but it requires a 62 HP tractor at 1000 PTO rpm.

Joel Jandreau · Nov 8, 2010

J_J said:
How about this using 540 PTO. Takes about 32 HP to run it, and gives about 27.2 HP at the motor, if motor is sized correctly. HCP-K26

Results for Hydraulic PumpsTO Pumps

Results for Hydraulic PumpsTO Pumps

The one you posted will do the same thing. Just another supplier.

There is one pump that will pump 40 GPM, but it requires a 62 HP tractor at 1000 PTO rpm.

I just got a new back hoe and I was going to use my tractor hydraulics, my tractor puts out i think it's 2.3 gpm and the tractor calls for 4.5 gpm. would a tang pump do the job? and do you know the part number? thank you . Joel Jandreau