Factory vs aftermarket buckets

e.myers · Sep 29, 2009

Could it make sense to get a credit for the factory bucket and purchase an aftermarket bucket with more volume?

I plan on only moving red clay (sand clay) which, I would guess comes in under the normal load recommended for x tractor.

Thinking if I could match the size of my loader to the anticipated weight of the material, I could potentially get a larger capacity bucket and still be within "spec". Would make my loader more useful to me, AND allow me to get a less expensive tractor that would be fully capable of moving more of MY dirt.

kenstrac · Sep 29, 2009

Only if MFG says it's ok might void your warranty.

Ductape · Sep 29, 2009

Not sure if its any larger, but when my local dealer sells a tractor with a skidsteer style coupler on the loader........ they often recommend a Woods brand HD bucket that comes with a replaceable cutting edge. Very nice, and very heavy duty compared to the OEM light materials bucket for not alot more money.

MtnViewRanch · Sep 29, 2009

I think that you will find that most of the aftermarket buckets usually hold less cubic feet than the standard buckets that come with the tractors. I think also that you will find that the standard buckets that come on the loaders hold about all the weight the the tractor will handle safely. If you decide on a larger tractor, then maybe you could get away with a wider bucket. I think you will find that normally the bucket widths that are offered by the OEM guys will vary 6"-8".

dex3361 · Sep 29, 2009

I think the Kubota L4400 that has the LA703 loader has a fairly HD standard bucket and the HD Round back is what I have and it is very well built. I agree that the buckets are well matched to the FEL capabilities. If you go to big you are consuming the loaders capabilities in bucket weight.

e.myers · Sep 29, 2009

Ductape- Woods brand might be a possibility. I'll ask.

MTNVIEW- I was thinking deeper rather than wider.

Dex- You have a Round back bucket on your 4400? Is it something special... a HD bucket that you specifically have to ask for? The type bucket I want has a round (radiused) interior but a square back side at the exterior. I need the interior to be rounded because working with wet clay and I need the back square for grading my jump faces when rolling backwards.

Also thinking about a toothbar to help dig in the clay, and possibly for putting the bucket perpendicular to the ground and breaking up the soil surface, skid steer style.... assuming that's feasible on a tractor.

Anyone recommend tooth bars for the oem buckets? For the woods brand buckets?

dex3361 · Sep 29, 2009

e.myers said:
Ductape- Woods brand might be a possibility. I'll ask.

MTNVIEW- I was thinking deeper rather than wider.

Dex- You have a Round back bucket on your 4400? Is it something special... a HD bucket that you specifically have to ask for? The type bucket I want has a round (radiused) interior but a square back side at the exterior. I need the interior to be rounded because working with wet clay and I need the back square for grading my jump faces when rolling backwards.

Also thinking about a toothbar to help dig in the clay, and possibly for putting the bucket perpendicular to the ground and breaking up the soil surface, skid steer style.... assuming that's feasible on a tractor.

Anyone recommend tooth bars for the oem buckets? For the woods brand buckets?

Yes that is what I have on mine the HD roundback that is rounded on the inside and square on the outside. I also have a toothbar and it is a great addition. The Kubota 6 foot HD Roundback Bucket model #L2296. The Bucket can be ordered with an extra bolt on cutting edge but it is not needed the welded on cutting edge is very strong and I have put mine through the test with no damage and when you add the tooth bare that reinforces it that much more. The toothbar is something that I added on after I purchased the tractor.

e.myers · Sep 29, 2009

THANKS!

dex3361 · Sep 30, 2009

Your welcome, no problem.

Ken45101 · Sep 30, 2009

e.myers said:
Also thinking about a toothbar to help dig in the clay, and possibly for putting the bucket perpendicular to the ground and breaking up the soil surface, skid steer style.... assuming that's feasible on a tractor.

The tooth bar will make a big difference in digging ability.

HOWEVER, trying to dig with the bucket perpendicular to the ground will put a lot of stress on the cylinders and could cause serious problems, from what I understand. The loader isn't built for that type of operation. Proper way to dig is a slight angle to penetrate (tooth bar will help a lot), then flatten out and go forward.

Best thing for breaking up the surface is scarifiers on a box blade or a single tooth ripper on the 3 pt. (they aren't that expensive).

Ken

radman1 · Sep 30, 2009

When I bought my JD 4520, I got the skid steer attachment carrier for the FEL. I then ordered the JD skid steer foundry bucket. The price was nearly equal to the JD HD bucket. However, the skid steer bucket was nearly 450 lbs compared to about 275 lbs for the JD bucket. The foundry bucket was 72" vs 73" for the CUT bucket. The 4520 FEL has more than enough lift to compensate for the weight difference no matter what I put in the bucket. Skid steer buckets are more HD than any CUT bucket I have seen. However, most skid steer buckets have a lower profile and longer bucket which doesn't work well on CUTs due to less curl force. The JD foundry bucket is shaped like a conventional CUT bucket but has thicker steel, edge reinforcement etc. The foundry bucket is designed for heavy digging such as concrete. You won't bow the bucket edge on the foundry bucket regardless of how you lift with a CUT.

The JD foundry bucket is black and will match well with any color of FEL. Woods also have black buckets.

e.myers · Sep 30, 2009

Radman-
Will check into a foundry bucket for the kubotas also. The main reason then that you like the bucket is because it is more heavy duty? You mention rollback angle and I'm trying to understand. How does this affect me when I move dirt?

Ken-
I'm hearing you on the perpendicular part.... I was kind of fishing. Was hoping someone was gonna tell me, no problem to use the bucket for scarifying perpendicular to the ground. Guess that didn't work out! You spoiled the party!
Am I wrong in my thinking that DRAGGING backwards with the bucket is gonna be less wear and tear?
Not that I can afford one, but would the two loader series on the 3940 and then the more hd loaders on the 4240 be any more capable of handling this?

In general, why do I NOT want a toothbar. My understanding is that they do help with digging, but there has got to be a reason to not put them on a bucket too. Or is it only expense?

powerstroke444e · Sep 30, 2009

Go with a 4n1 from Kubota 60" as I have had good luck with mine on a B26 & have moved a lot of trees and broken concrete it has held up well.

Ken45101 · Sep 30, 2009

e.myers said:
Am I wrong in my thinking that DRAGGING backwards with the bucket is gonna be less wear and tear?
Not that I can afford one, but would the two loader series on the 3940 and then the more hd loaders on the 4240 be any more capable of handling this?

In general, why do I NOT want a toothbar. My understanding is that they do help with digging, but there has got to be a reason to not put them on a bucket too. Or is it only expense?

Sorry, but back dragging with the bucket vertical is risky too, unless you have the loader in "float" position. Again, the cylinders aren't make for that kind of work. If you pull back too hard with the dump cylinders extended, you could bend the cylinder rods. Remember, it's called a "loader" (for loading loose material), not an "excavator".

Look at the difference in the cylinders on a tractor loader and those on a skid steer. The ss cylinders will be more robust.

(Yes, most of us get away with some excavating, but that's not what it is designed for.)

The only reason I know of not to have a tooth bar is that you cannot smooth out an area as smoothly with the tooth bar, it leaves grooves whereas a smooth bucket leaves a smoother surface. You can buy bolt on tooth bars which mount with just two bolts on the side and remove it when you don't need it.

Ken

MtnViewRanch · Sep 30, 2009

Ken45101 said:
The only reason I know of not to have a tooth bar is that you cannot smooth out an area as smoothly with the tooth bar, it leaves grooves whereas a smooth bucket leaves a smoother surface.

Ken

Ken, if you roll the bucket back so that the teeth are up off the ground, you then use the back of the bucket and have a smooth flat surface. I actually like back dragging with my toothed bucket and using the teeth, it then disperses the uneven ground evenly.

e.myers · Sep 30, 2009

Any tooth bar recommendations?

Mtnviewranch-
I see you back drag with the bucket teeth. Would like to do that with mine as well. No probems with tearing up stuff?

jenkinsph · Sep 30, 2009

I don't have an opinion on the teeth, but back dragging the bucket while flat or almost flat is more suitable for an agricultural loader. After you have alot of seat time and can control the loader with a certain amount of finesse then you can get away rolling the bucket forward. If you stress the curl cylinders too much you may damage them. In most cases to get the ground flat and smooth positioning the loader almost flat will yield good results.

Steve

dex3361 · Sep 30, 2009

e.myers said:
Any tooth bar recommendations?

Mtnviewranch-
I see you back drag with the bucket teeth. Would like to do that with mine as well. No probems with tearing up stuff?

Markam Welding here is a link
Markham Welding - Tooth Bar

MtnViewRanch · Sep 30, 2009

e.myers said:
Any tooth bar recommendations?

Mtnviewranch-
I see you back drag with the bucket teeth. Would like to do that with mine as well. No probems with tearing up stuff?

None as of yet,

but you need to realize that the bucket is only tipped (dumping) forward 10-15 degrees. I do not have the teeth straight down.
There are many ways to use the loader for back dragging, but you will find that most of the loader manufactures suggest that you never have the bucket at more than a 15 degree angle while back dragging. As has been said before, look at an industrial machine vs our farm style machines, they are designed differently. An example would be that our 580 Case has the hydraulics retracted (collapsed) when the bucket is dumped, the opposite of what all of the AG tractors have.