Farmall's are coming back!!!

Ledgemere Farm · Jul 30, 2003

Re: Farmall\'s are coming back!!!

The more I think about it, the more I hope they are a high quality tractor. It would be a shame to ruin the reputation of the old ones... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Libertine · Jul 31, 2003

Re: Farmall\'s are coming back!!!

MkePA:

Ploy - n An action calculated to frustrate an opponent or gain an advantage indirectly or deviously; a maneuver: 

Thanks. Yes, ploy is the correct word. CNH certainly is using the name to "gain an advantage" over its competitors by "deviously" implying something that isn't true. Don't ya think?

et al:

1) In the constant war between truth and mob rule (surveys, majority vote, etc.) unfortunately truth often looses.

2) I have always disliked fakery and pretense. I've nothing against CNH (I own one of their products! - in fact, if there had been a dealer nearer, I would have preferred the Case-IH, i.e. the red ones, to the blue NH I bought - after all, I was replacing a 1952 Farmall Super C) but the use of an honored and historically important name for something that is not what the name implies is, indeed, fakery. No matter how many people "voted" (or "surveyed") for it. Frankly, many of the NH & Case IH models have enough design superiority over their competition to stand on their own merits without the fakery of playing on the Farmall name.

3) When the Farmall came out and for years thereafter, Case was a competitor of IHC.

JEH

MikePA · Jul 31, 2003

Re: Farmall\'s are coming back!!!

Don't ya think?
Nope. They are engaging in marketing. Nothing wrong with that.

the use of an honored and historically important name
As I said in my earlier post, potential buyers will fall into one of two groups, either they will know the name and recognize that the "New Farmalls" do/do not measure up. They will not be fooled. The other group will know nothing about the name Farmall and they will evaluate the tractor based upon its merits, assuming they are wise shoppers. They will not be fooled either.

 for something that is not what the name implies 
How do you know this is true of the "New Farmalls"? Only time will tell if the "New Farmalls" live up to their namesake.

Libertine · Jul 31, 2003

Re: Farmall\'s are coming back!!!

MikePA:

How do you know this is true of the "New Farmalls"? 

I don't. But I'll take woodbeef's word for it. Further, I doubt there is a market for a real Farmall (like, as in my example, there is a small market for an updated Allis-Chalmers G).

You're right. If marketing means, in effect, conning the ignorant why worry. One of my many failings in life is attempting to understand reality. So I dislike fakery. Fooling the ignorant may be good marketing. It's bad philosophy.

As I said above (didn't realize you were on line) some of the CNH models are, in their own way, excellent machines. They can stand on their own merits.

JEH

RobS · Jul 31, 2003

Re: Farmall\'s are coming back!!!

Names are names. They are bought and sold with and without product to go with them. Even if Farmall had never changed company association over the years, would it still be the same tractor as the original? Are today's John Deeres the same as the old ones. Not hardly and that's a good thing!

Is the new BMW Mini-Cooper the same as the original? Has the Mini name been disgraced by the current rendition? Are all those people flocking to the dealerships to buy one feeling deceived or taken advantage of? I doubt it, in fact I'd like to be one of those people.

I used to work for Allied Signal company. My division was sold but shortly after that Allied Signal bought Honeywell. Dumped the Honeywell management but kept the Honeywell name as it has better brand recognition than Allied Signal.

When Chrysler Corp. bought AMC/Jeep the products were miserable. They were in fact, only buying the Jeep name/identity. They have done well with it since don't you think? Are today's Jeeps better than the mid-70's versions? Arguments could go both ways but from a technological, reliability and durability perspective they are without doubt better products. Does someone who bys a Jeep today feel deceived or taken advantage of?

Too many more examples to list. Once again, a brand name is just that... a name. The product it currently sits on will be very different than the product it originated on, regardless of the history along the way /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

MikePA · Jul 31, 2003

Re: Farmall\'s are coming back!!!

If marketing means, in effect, conning the ignorant why worry...Fooling the ignorant may be good marketing. It's bad philosophy.
I do not believe this is what marketing means nor do I believe that CNH is using the Farmall name with an express goal of fooling the ignorant. Why? Because it is ultimately counter productive. If a product does not live up to the marketing, including its namesake, it will eventually fail. Witness the AMF/Harley Davidson debacle, the sales failure of the the New Thunderbird, and New Coke. BTW, I am not in marketing. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Libertine · Jul 31, 2003

Re: Farmall\'s are coming back!!!

MikePA:

the "New Farmalls" 

Ha, ha. Can't resist pointing out that you are honest enough to call them the "New Farmalls". Now, if CNH wanted to advertise them that way, then, maybe. But as you well understand that's not what they are attempting to do.

The purpose of language is to trigger within the brain of another a sequence of neural events leading to comparable awareness (of "meaning") in short term memory as the originator. a/k/a "communication". CNH wants to trigger a vague awareness of something good in the brains of its prospects (as you say the ignorant ones) by using a word differently than its usual and customary meaning. This is fakery.

Not to repeat myself, but I have a very high opinion of some of the CNH products. But I still don't like fakery.

JEH

Libertine · Jul 31, 2003

Re: Farmall\'s are coming back!!!

MikePA: (we're playing leapfrog here)

I do not believe this is what marketing means nor do I believe that CNH is using the Farmall name with an express goal of fooling the ignorant. Why? Because it is ultimately counter productive. 

1) Come on, now. Fiat needs money. How many CEOs look much beyond the next 1/4 or the next few years at best. Many are almost as bad a politicians who can't look beyond the next election.

2) Agree, marketing doesn't HAVE to mean fakery. I repeat, many of the newer CNH models can stand on their own merits. Why are they better? Explain honestly and that's honest marketing. But they're NOT better because you call them "Farmalls" - although at least your "New Farmall" is more honest.

JEH

Robert_in_NY · Jul 31, 2003

Re: Farmall\'s are coming back!!!

( False. The CUT concept was first mass produced by Ford in his Fordson tractor and 20 years later the 9n. All CUTs being sold today evolved from these.
)

The original Fordsons were not Compacts. They were regular ag tractors for their time. Just because farms have out grown them doesn't make them compacts. If that is true, then in 50 years when everyone farms with 5000 hp tractors, I can have a STX 500 and say its a compact because it is so much smaller then the tractors used at that time /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

The Fordsons and N series were ag tractors. They changed the way farms worked and allowed farmers to do more work with ease. Heck, my JD M is a ag tractor and that is tiny but it was intended for the small farmers as a 1-2 row tractor. I would not call that a compact tractor because it is intended for field work, not home owner use (that is not meant to be mean but CUT's are intended for homeowners which is why they have features such as HST, Mid Mount PTO's and other features you would not find on a normal ag tractor.)

Later.

Ledgemere Farm · Jul 31, 2003

Re: Farmall\'s are coming back!!!

All good points. My brother has a JD M. I like it, but getting in and out of the seat is a pain (the steering wheel shaft is welded, so you end up bumping your knees alot).

On another note: Didn't White come out with an "American Series" a few years back? They were all the same tractor, but painted Cockshut red, MM yellow, Oliver green and White white? I seem to recall some people hating it it simply because the thought White was capitalizing upon the colors and reputations of some of the companies they bought out. What is the deal with White anyway? Does AGCO own them too? I bet in 20 years, you will only be able to buy John Deere or AGCO... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif