FEL Cylinder Leaking

[dooleysm]

I believe I have a leaky cylinder on the FEL on my 30 hp Kubota (though it's not a Kubota FEL). An O-ring or something of that nature is what I'm guessing, though I have very limited knowledge of hydraulics. I'm planning to take the cylinder off the tractor and take it to someone else to repair. So my question is about how to do this. It seems pretty straight forward, unbolt the cyclinder from the loader arm and then remove the hydraulic lines, or maybe vice versa. Is this all there is to it? Will the hydraulic lines start spewing fluid all over the place or is there some kind of ball bearing in there to prevent that? Should I disconnect the hydraulic lines first or last or does it matter? Anything else I should watch out for?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[Diamondpilot]

With the tractor shut off and the loader on the ground with the bottom of the bucket flat, exercise the FEL valve a dozen times or so. This will bleed off any pressure. Then loosen the hydro fittings slowly with a rag draped over to catch any spray, there should be none. Also have a catch pan for the fluid that will drain from the lines. Now remove the cylinder.

First thing I would do is to check that your local hydro shop has the right seals and if not order them from the FEL manufacture so your down time is limited. Remember when that cylinder is off make sure your do not need the tracotor because it will be unmovable.

I had to have one of my cylinders rebuilt and the kit was $25 and $30 for labor.

Chris

 

[BigKansas]

Another word of advice is to try and keep everything as clean as you can when you remove your cylinder(s). Make sure you cap off your lines while your tractor is sitting waiting on the repair. Last but not least, make sure you check your hydraulic fluid level when you reinstall the cylinder.

 

[TBDonnelly]

I'm in the process now of rebuilding my curl cylinders. I have them dissassembled, have the new seals ordered and I'm waiting for the new seals to be delivered to finish the reassembly. The attached pictures show the seals on the end of the rod that were leaking internally, causing the excessive leakdown.

Don

 

[dooleysm]

Thanks for the advice...off to the manufacturer's site to check on new seals.

 

[dfkrug]

I'm in the process now of rebuilding my curl cylinders. I have them dissassembled, have the new seals ordered and I'm waiting for the new seals to be delivered to finish the reassembly. The attached pictures show the seals on the end of the rod that were leaking internally, causing the excessive leakdown.

Wow, Don, are those off your KL130? I wonder what caused the seals to
splooge out tlike that..... Excessive heat? Very interesting.

 

[TBDonnelly]

Wow, Don, are those off your KL130? I wonder what caused the seals to
splooge out tlike that..... Excessive heat? Very interesting.

Yes, they are off my KL130. The jury is out on what caused the seals to deform. I had a local hydraulic shop look at them and the comment was, it looked like the seal got hot to deform the way it did. I'm wondering if the material(urethane) the seal was made of could be inferior. Could the loader arms have flexed excessively, while the curl cylinders were extended and cause the rods to torque and cause the blow by? The pressure is still the original pressure as set from the factory.

There was no exterior leaks only interior.

Don

 

[dfkrug]

I have them dissassembled, have the new seals ordered and I'm waiting for the new seals to be delivered to finish the reassembly.

Although new seals from Kioti are probably reasonably priced (unlike JD), I
would try some other seals, like maybe from Hercules/Bulldog? What are
you going to use?

 

[TBDonnelly]

Although new seals from Kioti are probably reasonably priced (unlike JD), I
would try some other seals, like maybe from Hercules/Bulldog? What are
you going to use?

I've ordered(yesterday) from an aftermarket seal supplier. When they arrive and I confirm the seals are the correct replacements I'll post all the pertinent information. The pricing was way cheaper than Kioti's price so I want to be sure the new seal is the correct one.

Don

 

[Diamondpilot]

Be careful putting the new seals in. It is very easy to nick them and they are trash. That is why I took mine to a shop and let them do it for $30. He test with air at 3000 psi so he knows they are not going to leak. Air can get by where fluid will not.

If you do decide to do it yourself google on seal replacement. You will find some good tips like heating the seals to soften them in hot hydro fluid.

Chris

 

[TBDonnelly]

You will find some good tips like heating the seals to soften them in hot hydro fluid.

Chris

Thanks for the tips. This is my first cylinder rebuild so any help is appreciated.

Don

 

[kennyd]

Hydro fluid not necessary, I just boil them in water on the stove for about 5 minutes.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I wouldn't boil them. These polyurethane seals are rated for 212 degrees. I heat them to about 160 degrees and that's plenty. I doubt your seals got hot enough to do that type of damage. Especially all the way out on the FEL. If it got hot enough to do this damage out there, you have way bigger problems than this. They were extruded because of pressure, not temperature. I will bet you are doing things with that bucket that you shouldn't be doing.

You absolutely do not want to get seals from Kioti. Ask Rick Wallace about that. It's not the dealers making a killing on them, it's Kioti. Rick makes almost nothing on a seal kit just to try to keep customers happy. I can get a seal kit for a Kioti for maybe $20. Kioti will charge over $200 for the same exact kit.

Don, sorry I couldn't chime in earlier. I closed my shop and went back to work. Now the shop is busy again and I'm trying to work full time too. I'll sleep when I'm dead.
Andy

 

[TBDonnelly]

I wouldn't boil them. These polyurethane seals are rated for 212 degrees. I heat them to about 160 degrees and that's plenty. I doubt your seals got hot enough to do that type of damage. Especially all the way out on the FEL. If it got hot enough to do this damage out there, you have way bigger problems than this. They were extruded because of pressure, not temperature. I will bet you are doing things with that bucket that you shouldn't be doing.

Don, sorry I couldn't chime in earlier. I closed my shop and went back to work. Now the shop is busy again and I'm trying to work full time too. I'll sleep when I'm dead.
Andy

Andy, I'm sorry to hear about the closing of your shop. Recently, I helped my cousin go through closing her family run business of many years and it's been like a death in the family.

Your comments are interesting about excess pressure. My previous tractor was a frame size smaller, a Ford 1220, I had it for 8 years and put 600 hours on the tractor. Never had a cylinder problem with the Ford FEL. With the Kioti, I moved up a frame size and the loader is spec'd out almost double what the Ford 1220 was spec'd out at. I'm doing the same basic yard tasks with the Kioti, with a more comfortable seat , as I did with the Ford 1220.

So maybe there's something up with the hydraulic system itself? Could the pressure relief valve not be working? Doesn't the pressure relief valve safeguard the loader from self destructing?

Don

 

[TBDonnelly]

The new seals arrived. Size and shape look identical, different color(blue). They came from Martin Fluid Power. www.mfpseals.com They have online ordering through their website. 4 seals totaled $10.xx Shipping from Tampa, Fl brought the total to $16.80

Don

 

[TBDonnelly]

I heated the seals in a pan of hydraulic fluid to 160 degrees. The seals were soft and pliable and slipped into position. My question is are they seated properly? The one edge of the seal is tilted. Is this normal or do I need to jockey the seal around so the edge is more flush. See the attached pictures.....

 

[dfkrug]

My question is are they seated properly?

They do seem to stick out a bit more than I would expect.

MSUC is a metric U-cup piston seal I see. I would have expected that the
profile was more like the MH607 type, but I have not had my cyls apart.

What is the bore size (or wall thickness) of that cyl?

 

[J_J]

I heated the seals in a pan of hydraulic fluid to 160 degrees. The seals were soft and pliable and slipped into position. My question is are they seated properly? The one edge of the seal is tilted. Is this normal or do I need to jockey the seal around so the edge is more flush. See the attached pictures.....

The seals have to be installed correctly for this reason. Some seals have a lip that needs to go in a certain direction in order to seal. Look at the pictures in the link below. Did you happen to notice the orientation as you removed them? The lip should go against the pressure.

HYDRAULIC PISTON SEALS - Parker

 

[TBDonnelly]

MSUC is a metric U-cup piston seal I see. I would have expected that the profile was more like the MH607 type, but I have not had my cyls apart.

What is the bore size (or wall thickness) of that cyl?

I checked the size chart for the MH607 and they are not offered in the size I need(35x45x6.0).

I don't have the right tool to measure the bore size....but I'm working on it.

Don

 

[TBDonnelly]

The seals have to be installed correctly for this reason. Some seals have a lip that needs to go in a certain direction in order to seal. Look at the pictures in the link below. Did you happen to notice the orientation as you removed them? The lip should go against the pressure.

HYDRAULIC PISTON SEALS - Parker

I believe I have the seals orientated correctly. It's wether I need to twist the 'U' shape so the bottom of the 'U' is seated up against the white telflon spacer, which may bring the protuding lip down a bit. Although, The way the seal sits in its current position it does appear both lips/edges would make contact with the cylinder.

Don