FEL Hydraulics Just Died

[grsthegreat]

do you have a detent rear hydraulic fitting besides the pones hooked up. if it locks into detent without an implement hooked up it will stop all flow (deadhead). i loop hoses on all unused ports.

 

[mike0000]

Hopefully you find a simple solution.
My story on loosing hydraulics on my Branson ended up being the Hydraulic pump drive gear. Gear had the inner splines destroyed, so it was spinning but not driving the hydraulic pump. I never figured out why it happened.
May be worth testing to see if your getting any pressure at the pump discharge.

Mike

 

[River Valley Landscaping]

Hopefully you find a simple solution.
My story on loosing hydraulics on my Branson ended up being the Hydraulic pump drive gear. Gear had the inner splines destroyed, so it was spinning but not driving the hydraulic pump. I never figured out why it happened.
May be worth testing to see if your getting any pressure at the pump discharge.

Mike

I was also thinking start at the pump and make sure it is building pressure as I had recently had the splined shaft on my hydro motor strip out and just left spinning in the receiving socket.

 

[LD1]

How is the hydro pump driven on that model? Make sure whatever drives it is actually spinning the pump.

Does the tractor have remotes?

Is power steering a separate pump or the same pump with a flow divider? Does the power steering work?

 

[Fxfymn413]

Try tapping the relief valve with a hammer. If you have one, or can borrow one, put a pressure gauge on one of the hydraulic quick connects just to be sure there is no pressure; disconnect all of the quick connects and check the pressure on one of the disconnects.

The hydraulic filter should have a magnet on it. Check it for any metal in the system. If no magnet carefully remove the filter to keep as much oil in it as possible and then drain the oil through as fine a mesh screen as you can find to look for metal. If you suspect metal carefully cut the filter open to look for metal in the paper mesh. Obviously if you find metal your diagnosis of a failed pump is most likely correct, but I would pull the relief valve first just to make sure it is not stuck open or has a broken spring.

 

[mmranch]

Thanks for all the ideas! I really appreciate it.

Current status is... the tractor is backed into the shop with all 4 wheels up on railroad ties so the tractor is elevated. The backhoe and FEL are on the tractor because they can't be removed without working hydraulics. This means the backhoe is in the way and accessing the rear or underneath is difficult and that's why the tractor is up on railroad ties to make it easier to get underneath. The bucket & toothbar is still on but the FEL is NOT fully lowered to the ground. If I lower the FEL all the way to the ground then the FEL arms will be in the way of accessing the location of the hydraulic pump on the right side of the engine.

When I disconnected and reconnected the FEL hoses at the FEL valve, I could only do 3 of them. The 4th wouldn't disconnect (probably because of the pressure since the FEL isn't lowered all the way to the ground). At the moment, I have no way of supporting the FEL & bucket elevated so that I could relieve the pressure and then disconnect/reconnect the 4th hose.

The hydraulic pump system is mounted to the right side of the engine. There are 2 pumps... one is the hydraulic pump and the other is the power steering pump. It seems there must be a shaft or something that comes out of the engine into the middle section. The power steering pump is mounted to the front of the middle section and the hydraulic pump is mounted to the rear of the middle section.

When I reversed the tractor over to the shop, it seemed to steer fine (I couldn't go forward because of the tooth bucket). This implies that the power steering pump is still working and being driven.

I haven't started working on it yet this morning. I will be checking the hydraulic oil level first. It holds 11 gallons so I doubt it is really low. I have a pressure gauge male setup and can check the pressure at the rear remotes only. (This setup will not connect to the FEL valve as it needs to be female to do so).

I will keep you posted! Thanks again.

 

[mike0000]

Thanks for all the ideas! I really appreciate it.

Current status is... the tractor is backed into the shop with all 4 wheels up on railroad ties so the tractor is elevated. The backhoe and FEL are on the tractor because they can't be removed without working hydraulics. This means the backhoe is in the way and accessing the rear or underneath is difficult and that's why the tractor is up on railroad ties to make it easier to get underneath. The bucket & toothbar is still on but the FEL is NOT fully lowered to the ground. If I lower the FEL all the way to the ground then the FEL arms will be in the way of accessing the location of the hydraulic pump on the right side of the engine.

When I disconnected and reconnected the FEL hoses at the FEL valve, I could only do 3 of them. The 4th wouldn't disconnect (probably because of the pressure since the FEL isn't lowered all the way to the ground). At the moment, I have no way of supporting the FEL & bucket elevated so that I could relieve the pressure and then disconnect/reconnect the 4th hose.

The hydraulic pump system is mounted to the right side of the engine. There are 2 pumps... one is the hydraulic pump and the other is the power steering pump. It seems there must be a shaft or something that comes out of the engine into the middle section. The power steering pump is mounted to the front of the middle section and the hydraulic pump is mounted to the rear of the middle section.

When I reversed the tractor over to the shop, it seemed to steer fine (I couldn't go forward because of the tooth bucket). This implies that the power steering pump is still working and being driven.

I haven't started working on it yet this morning. I will be checking the hydraulic oil level first. It holds 11 gallons so I doubt it is really low. I have a pressure gauge male setup and can check the pressure at the rear remotes only. (This setup will not connect to the FEL valve as it needs to be female to do so).

I will keep you posted! Thanks again.

May be similar to my Branson, which uses two pumps. Like yours front pump is PS rear is hydraulics. I too did not loose PS. I’ll attach a picture of the drive gear that went out on mine. It’s splined all the way through, but the side that drove the hyd. Pump went out, PS side was fine.

 

[mmranch]

Checked the hydraulic oil... it was fine - a couple of quarts low.

Put jackstands under the bucket and lowered the FEL slightly to relieve pressure. Disconnected/reconnected the 4th hose on the FEL valve. Put pressure gauge on rear remote. Started the tractor and rear remote pressure was zero. PTO doesn't work. FEL doesn't work. Rear remote (backhoe) doesn't work. 3-Point doesn't work.

Attached is the hydraulic system schematic. From the Main Pump... hydraulic pressure goes to the PTO, FEL valve, Rear Remotes then lastly, the 3-Point lift.

Some relief valve could be stuck open but I'm not sure how I would find it. At this point, it seems to point to the Main Pump having a problem.


Thanks for the pics of the gear. Was that the replacement part? I don't see stripped teeth, etc.

Thanks again.

 

[mike0000]

Checked the hydraulic oil... it was fine - a couple of quarts low.

Put jackstands under the bucket and lowered the FEL slightly to relieve pressure. Disconnected/reconnected the 4th hose on the FEL valve. Put pressure gauge on rear remote. Started the tractor and rear remote pressure was zero. PTO doesn't work. FEL doesn't work. Rear remote (backhoe) doesn't work. 3-Point doesn't work.

Attached is the hydraulic system schematic. From the Main Pump... hydraulic pressure goes to the PTO, FEL valve, Rear Remotes then lastly, the 3-Point lift.

Some relief valve could be stuck open but I'm not sure how I would find it. At this point, it seems to point to the Main Pump having a problem.


Thanks for the pics of the gear. Was that the replacement part? I don't see stripped teeth, etc.

Thanks again.

Your welcome,

That is the bad/stripped out gear, it’s the inner most part that stripped out, but only the side driving hydraulics, (doesn’t show up in picture). Each pump has a “Male” shaft that inserts into the center of that drive gear.
I don’t know how to link my thread on repairing my Branson, but if you care to search for it, it’s in the Branson section.
I replaced that gear and the hydraulic pump. The pump seemed to be ok but the shaft had some wear, I was also afraid the pump may have caused the failure.

Mike

 

[oldnslo]

mmranch,
In the schematic there is a relief in the PTO block set to 175 Bar (17.5 Mpa) There is also a relief in the FEL control valve assembly. Rare but not impossible that relief valve spring broke causing a sudden failure like you experienced. Probably similar to splines going on the pump input drive. As Forest Gump said it happens...